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05-19-2012, 02:49 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/183420-current...me-lenses.html
(...)
It would be almost difficult to design a 560mm that ONLY covered APS-C.
(...)
QuoteOriginally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden Quote
I think that argument applies to most tele lenses from about 100mm, so for the same reason the DA200 and DA300 are full frame compatible (...)
Yes and no. Pentax said that the 560 mm adopts "optics used in astronomical telescopes". Such formulas lead to very sharp centre and poor borders, hence it's kind of appropriate to limit the image circle to APS-C.

05-19-2012, 03:26 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by userage Quote
Why are you comparing just megapixels? Because I fail to see where else the D3200 would be better.

Since you think megapixels make a better camera, why would you get the D3200? When you can get a Nokia 808 which has 41 megapixels?! It doesnt make sense to me /sarc

The K30 has higher ISO, is weather sealed and shoots faster. Also have you seen samples from the D3200? I've seen some and they are horrible.:S
I'm trying to compare it to other new "Entry Level" DSLR cameras coming out today in a similar price range. The Nokia 808 is not an "Entry Level" DSLR its a cell phone. Hopefully this K-30 is super well built and takes killer shots. I will have to check out the samples from the D3200 and A65 to witness the atrocities first hand.
05-19-2012, 03:40 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Yes and no. Pentax said that the 560 mm adopts "optics used in astronomical telescopes". Such formulas lead to very sharp centre and poor borders, hence it's kind of appropriate to limit the image circle to APS-C.
True. And the fact that the lens is labeled DA not D-FA.
05-19-2012, 03:42 PM   #109
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I can imagine the following product lines of cameras:

Does the Pentax naming convention hint at any possible evolution of product?

K-01 & K-1 (mirrorless line)
K-30 ( or K-03) & K-3 (APS-C DSLR line)
LXD (FF)

05-19-2012, 03:47 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by SuperK5 Quote
I'm trying to compare it to other new "Entry Level" DSLR cameras coming out today in a similar price range. The Nokia 808 is not an "Entry Level" DSLR its a cell phone. Hopefully this K-30 is super well built and takes killer shots. I will have to check out the samples from the D3200 and A65 to witness the atrocities first hand.
I actually quite like all the Sony's, the D3200 sample I saw was bad due to the kit lens. I'm sure its a great cam but I was just being purposely biased there

Still I think the K30's 16mpx is fine considering it has weather sealing. It stacks up decently well against Sony's Entry level the A37, $100 more but you get a lot more aswell.
05-19-2012, 03:55 PM   #111
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Next top crop cameraes will be K3 and K1, mirrorless crop K-01. K30 is a light version of the new coming K3, then there will be a new entry level camera replacing the K-r. Finally the full frame will be named K2, after the former top model from the 1975 cameraes. That is the only model name that Pentax has not used fron that era. The font in K-01 is excatly like the font on the K-series fram film days. it's only a guess, but I'm quite sure I'm right. LX is roman for 60, to celebrate that it was 60 years since Ashai Optics were founded. That is why they woun't use that name.
05-19-2012, 04:02 PM - 1 Like   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by IOO Quote
(...)
LX is roman for 60, to celebrate that it was 60 years since Ashai Optics were founded. That is why they won't use that name.
Yep. And Asahiflex, the very first Pentax SLR, was commercially launched in 1952, sixty years ago .
05-19-2012, 04:05 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I never said people don't use both (I use APS, 35mm and 645 myself). I said they are appealing to different segments; people who want an full featured APS camera are not likely to fall for a stripped down budget FF one at the same price (provided that they actually are going to be sold at the same price in the first place; it remains to be seen). In addition, most buyers don't give a shit whether a camera is FF or not. In fact, for many users if not most, FF is a drawback except for image quality but then the camera must use a better sensor than the current Sony 24mp sensor. Most of todays DSLR users have no background in the film 35mm system and are not married to the 35mm format.
Pentax is currently an APS system. A new FF Nikon will no more affect Pentax upper APS camera sales than the Pentax 645N did for the Nikon F5 sales (they costed the same).

Pal, you keep contradicting yourself. You said, different formats different buyers. I just pointed out to you that people that have aps-c Pentax cameras and full frame Canon or Nikon bodies would probably be interested in having a full frame Pentax body and aps-c body. The only thing stripped down about the Nikon D600 is it may lack the screwdrive motor. There is no reason Pentax would automatically leave out the $25 motor.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
One is an FF camera and the other is APS - different formats - different buyers. For the same magnification and speed FF lenses will be more expensive. Besides, I doubt the price of the Nikon. If it indeed is that crippled it may get the same fate as the slow selling Canon 5D; they used years for emtying stock. It is more about filling every hole in the market. Cannibalization will hit Nikon more than anyone else...
You keep repeating yourself on the lenses being more expensive and there is no reason for that mythology. The FA 35/2 and FA 50/1.4 and D FA 100/2.8 WR are examples of your fallacy. In another thread I demonstrated the fact that the FA* 300/4.5 was actually a longer heavier lens than the DA* 300/4 but I think you completely ignored that. The FA LTD series was made before the shift to digital and is still in production. In won't cost anymore to by an FA 31 LTD for a full frame body than it does a K-5. Plus, you keep ignoring the fact that Nikon has an aps-c crop mode in their full frame bodies and it is very likely that Pentax would do that as well. And there you go again with the Canon 5D which has out sold Pentax's current full frame line up. Plus, the current 5D MK III is the the new body with the Mk II still available and there were a lot that stuck with the 5D over the MK II.

You may as well admit it. When it comes to full frame and Pentax, you are a defeatist. You make the same tired arguments in everyone of these threads.

05-19-2012, 04:07 PM   #114
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I owned a K2.. I also wondered whether Pentax would release an entry level FF called K2D. The LX-D name sounds perfect for both the celebration of 60 years and the fact that the LX was a great camera.

I got rid of my K2 for an LX and MX combo.
FWIW, my old kit:

LX & MX with motor drives
K lenses:
15mm 3/5
17mm Full frame Fish-eye
28mm Shift
50
Vivitar Series I 90-180 flat field zoom
300 F/4
and a few other things that I can't quite remember

I really wish I still had all that stuff but I sold it to fund my music dreams 28 years ago. If I told you what I sold it for you cry or LYAO. Poverty can make you do stupid things at times.
05-19-2012, 04:22 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Pal, you keep contradicting yourself. You said, different formats different buyers. I just pointed out to you that people that have aps-c Pentax cameras and full frame Canon or Nikon bodies would probably be interested in having a full frame Pentax body and aps-c body. The only thing stripped down about the Nikon D600 is it may lack the screwdrive motor. There is no reason Pentax would automatically leave out the $25 motor.



You keep repeating yourself on the lenses being more expensive and there is no reason for that mythology. The FA 35/2 and FA 50/1.4 and D FA 100/2.8 WR are examples of your fallacy. In another thread I demonstrated the fact that the FA* 300/4.5 was actually a longer heavier lens than the DA* 300/4 but I think you completely ignored that. The FA LTD series was made before the shift to digital and is still in production. In won't cost anymore to by an FA 31 LTD for a full frame body than it does a K-5. Plus, you keep ignoring the fact that Nikon has an aps-c crop mode in their full frame bodies and it is very likely that Pentax would do that as well. And there you go again with the Canon 5D which has out sold Pentax's current full frame line up. Plus, the current 5D MK III is the the new body with the Mk II still available and there were a lot that stuck with the 5D over the MK II.

You may as well admit it. When it comes to full frame and Pentax, you are a defeatist. You make the same tired arguments in everyone of these threads.
I really don't know what your point is. I'm saying that FF cameras are bought by people that want FF camera and APS cameras are bought by people that want those. Who cares if some wants both and what does it matter? The fact remains that if you want a fully specced APS camera a stripped budget FF, possible with no more resolution, is not likely to be very tempting.
Comparable lenses will be more expensive the larger the format. The fact that you can find exceptions doesn't alter this; it is physics Incidentally, I don't understand you examples; so what if two 300mm lenses have different sizes? They are both 300mm lenses!. The macro example is weird too; an FF lens that does the same as the 100/2.8 Macro on APS would have a focal lenght of 150mm and need to give a magnification of 50% larger than life-size! Such a lens do not exist; never has and would probably cost $4500 if it did and would be big due to the extension needed.
Eg there are medium format lenses that lighter and cheaper than comparable lenses for 35mm(FF). That doesn't mean medium format is cheaper and smaller than smaller formats (obviously). '

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 05-19-2012 at 04:28 PM.
05-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I really don't know what your point is. I'm saying that FF cameras are bought by people that want FF camera and APS cameras are bought by people that want those. Who cares if some wants both and what does it matter? The fact remains that if you want a fully specced APS camera a stripped budget FF, possible with no more resolution, is not likely to be very tempting.
Comparable lenses will be more expensive the larger the format. The fact that you can find exceptions doesn't alter this; it is physics (Incidentally, I don't understand you examples; so what if two 300mm lenses have different sizes? They are both 300mm lenses!). Eg there are medium format lenses that lighter and cheaper than comparable lenses for 35mm(FF). That doesn't mean medium format is cheaper and smaller than smaller formats (obviously). '
People that want only a full frame or only and aps-c will still be buying those. The "stripped down" is more of your deflection in this thing. I don't see Pentax having more than 1 ff, at least right away. That if if the ever have one. I think the eventually will and at some point have overlapping models. But initially, I see one model. You are full of it regarding the lens prices. The longer glass never was cheap to begin with. Not even the A 400/5.6 was cheap.


Back to YOUR stripped down argument. This is the expected specs on the D600. The only thing I don't like is the lack of the $25 focus motor but doubt Pentax would drop that given the FA series of lenses and the FA 35, FA 50 and D FA 100 WR. Plus, Pentax would likely include some of the things the K-5 has such as dual wheels etc. It looks like stripped down is relative to me. In the context of Pentax, it would be the only FF for the time it was released.


QuoteQuote:
  • 39 AF points (with an option of 11 AF points)
  • 5 fps (same as the D700, the D800 has 4fps)
  • 2 SD card slots with Eye-fi support
  • Build-in retouching images functionality
  • Built-in flash with sync speed of 1/250s
  • Two user settings: U1 and U2
  • Fn button

  • GPS
  • HD video
  • The sensor inside the D600 will probably be 24MP (made by Sony, modified by Nikon)
  • The new camera will be marketed as an entry level full frame camera
  • Auto DX crop mode
  • In-camera RAW editor
  • Built in time-lapse functionality
  • Possibly with build-in HDR
  • Possibly with integrated GPS
  • New external battery grip
  • To be released this summer
  • The D600 will probably not have an internal AF motor, which means it will work only with AF-S lenses (just like the D3200 and D5100)
  • The price of the D600 is rumored to be very low - maybe as low as $1500
  • Announcement before Photokina (September 2012)
  • One or more low-priced f/4 lenses will be announced with the D600. For example, Nikon recently filed a patent for a 24-70mm f/3.5-4.5 full frame lens which seems to be designed for a cheaper FX DSLR body
05-19-2012, 04:40 PM   #117
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That price of the Nikon is a rumor, not a fact. My guess is $2000+

There's no way a FF camera will cost the same or even in ballpark of a similarly specced APS camera. The sensor is the major cost in the camera. Hence, if it happens, the FF camera will be stripped compared to a similar priced APS camera.

If Pentax makes an FF camera I for one would not expect an entry level one. I don't think Pentax have the market to pull that off; they'll need a high margin product. A cheap price will also prevent them to make the camera different enough to perhaps attract customers from other brands.
05-19-2012, 04:55 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
That price of the Nikon is a rumor, not a fact. My guess is $2000+

There's no way a FF camera will cost the same or even in ballpark of a similarly specced APS camera. The sensor is the major cost in the camera. Hence, if it happens, the FF camera will be stripped compared to a similar priced APS camera.

If Pentax makes an FF camera I for one would not expect an entry level one. I don't think Pentax have the market to pull that off; they'll need a high margin product. A cheap price will also prevent them to make the camera different enough to perhaps attract customers from other brands.
The MSRP on the D800 is $2999.95 at present. The D700 current MSRP is at $2699.95. It will be interesting to see if Nikon releases the D600 at at all. If they do, pricing will be tricky.
05-19-2012, 04:58 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I wonder if those guys over there are citing PentaxForums. :laugh:

That's internet journalism for you. Of course traditional news media isn't too far behind these days either, whatever happened to verifying independent sources?
05-19-2012, 05:05 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by IOO Quote
Next top crop cameraes will be K3 and K1, mirrorless crop K-01. K30 is a light version of the new coming K3, then there will be a new entry level camera replacing the K-r. Finally the full frame will be named K2, after the former top model from the 1975 cameraes. That is the only model name that Pentax has not used fron that era. The font in K-01 is excatly like the font on the K-series fram film days. it's only a guess, but I'm quite sure I'm right. LX is roman for 60, to celebrate that it was 60 years since Ashai Optics were founded. That is why they woun't use that name.

The new full frame could be named the dLX or d-LX (think DeLuXe without the vowels).
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