K30, K5n, K3 and maybe full-frame at Photokina...

ElJamoquio · 05-19-2012, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden

I think that argument applies to most tele lenses from about 100mm, so for the same reason the DA200 and DA300 are full frame compatible (in difference to the list in the link you give where they don't seam to believe that the 200mm is FF).

That's actually my list. I only counted lenses that are described as full-frame lenses. I included a few others that are full frame capable.

Personally I'm worried that If Pentax offered a DX/FX mode, some of these lenses might be inappropriately cropped.

Blue · 05-19-2012, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

That's actually my list. I only counted lenses that are described as full-frame lenses. I included a few others that are full frame capable.

Personally I'm worried that If Pentax offered a DX/FX mode, some of these lenses might be inappropriately cropped.

Only a risk it its an auto crop mode vs. a manual control. However, the firmware should also be able to deal with this.

Anvh · 05-19-2012, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by karlito

does the k5n have avchd video format, and multiple framerate??? i hate mpeg 4 with 25p!!!

AVCHD is very limited, meaning it wont yield as much details with the 28 Mbit/s limit for example...
It will be AVI with h.264 codec most likely, Pentax are using that now with the Q and the K-01

And for your information AVCHD uses mpeg4 or h.264 as codec

jsherman999 · 05-19-2012, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Blue

Only a risk it its an auto crop mode vs. a manual control. However, the firmware should also be able to deal with this.

It would surely default to auto-crop, with an option to manually override (ie 'turn off' crop mode.)

To do anything else would be silly and be different (and worse) than the way Nikon does it. Especially for Pentax, which has several DA lenses that are 90-99% FF-capable.

Anvh · 05-19-2012, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by jsherman999

It would surely default to auto-crop, with an option to manually override (ie 'turn off' crop mode.)

To do anything else would be silly and be different (and worse) than the way Nikon does it. Especially for Pentax, which has several DA lenses that are 90-99% FF-capable.

But Pentax has a problem, they have DFA that work on fullframe and DA that wont work on fullframe, they are clear in that so they now are stuck with it.
They can't make a list with DA that will work and DA that wont work or rename lenses.
So if Pentax is coming with FF camera then this is a big mistake from pentax part, they need to make new lenses for it or it will be market nightmare.

ElJamoquio · 05-19-2012, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

They can't make a list with DA that will work and DA that wont work or rename lenses.

I agree with you that it's a marketing nightmare. However I think the people who would be purchasing a full-frame camera would be willing and capable to consult a list to see which of the legacy lenses will be 'good' to an 'X' image circle at full aperture.

It's not the best thing in the world, and it will be confusing. And yes, pentax can and should rename some lenses from DA to DFA.

As long as they allow us to override an autocrop feature, I'm OK with it.

ElJamoquio · 05-19-2012, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

There is no 24-75 on the roadmap....
No FF lenses either...

We'll find out. IMO there is a FF 24-75 on the roadmap.

ElJamoquio · 05-19-2012, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

Those focal lengths are highly speculative. We don't know how to interpret the fadeout at each end. These look like 12-28 and 16-85 to me.

Indeed, they are speculative. However there are some reports of a 12-24 patent pending in japan. Unfortunately those same reports reference the patent as covering an APS-C sensor.

Blue · 05-19-2012, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

But Pentax has a problem, they have DFA that work on fullframe and DA that wont work on fullframe, they are clear in that so they now are stuck with it.
They can't make a list with DA that will work and DA that wont work or rename lenses.
So if Pentax is coming with FF camera then this is a big mistake from pentax part, they need to make new lenses for it or it will be market nightmare.

Actually, the camera can recognize the lens. Where do you think the EXIF data comes from? Plus, D FA (not the space in between?) and DA are completely different series lenses. The D FA series are all full frame and 2 of them have aperture rings. Pentax won't have to do a 'new' line of lenses for full frame any more than Canon or Nikon did. Besides, the 5 of the FA series is still in production.

Edit: BTW, some of the DA will work on full frame. DA 40, DA* 55/1.4 and a few others.

Anvh · 05-19-2012, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

I agree with you that it's a marketing nightmare. However I think the people who would be purchasing a full-frame camera would be willing and capable to consult a list to see which of the legacy lenses will be 'good' to an 'X' image circle at full aperture.

It's not the best thing in the world, and it will be confusing. And yes, pentax can and should rename some lenses from DA to DFA.

As long as they allow us to override an autocrop feature, I'm OK with it.

But you agree that the lenses arent marketable that way sadly, there needs to come a new line however way you turn it.

Anvh · 05-19-2012, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by Blue

Actually, the camera can recognize the lens. Where do you think the EXIF data comes from? Plus, D FA (not the space in between?) and DA are completely different series lenses. The D FA series are all full frame and 2 of them have aperture rings. Pentax won't have to do a 'new' line of lenses for full frame any more than Canon or Nikon did. Besides, the 5 of the FA series is still in production.

Edit: BTW, some of the DA will work on full frame. DA 40, DA* 55/1.4 and a few others.

They can, will the viewfinder be cropped as well automaticly or will it be a surprise whenever you put a lens on the camera how it will be cropped?
they are basicly stuck with 2 crops, ASP-C and FF or things will get confusing, or they need to go for an electronic viewfinder.

And yes Pentax need to make DFA lenses for an FF camera.
FF camera will be aimed at more professional users most of them don't want or have the time to search on EBAY to find the lens they need, so a good lens line needs to be there with the basic lenses will a FF be a success.
And like i already said, yes the DA*200mm also work great on FF for example but Pentax clearly marketed as DA not as DFA meaning pentax is saying it wont work on FF so there is no way they can market a DA lens as FF lens, it will be highly confusing and a marketing nightmare. Only thing they can do is reintroduce the lens as DFA.
I a list of DA lenses that work or not work might be useful for the transaction but it's not the way to go on with, there needs to be a clear line.
Nikon and Canon has that clear line for example.

And great 5 FA lenses and 2 DFA, good thing is 5 of those are very good prime lenses so that's covered but in this age there needs to be a good zoom, at least 28-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 lens to begin with for a "professional" camera like and FF, new lenses simply need to be made and need to be ready at launch.
Without the lenses there is no reason to get such a camera, it's as simple as that.

ElJamoquio · 05-19-2012, 10:40 PM

Pentax FF has far more lenses than Fuji.

**Ash** · 05-19-2012, 10:45 PM

Another way of putting it: how many people here would buy a FF camera with the current lineup of lenses? With future plans for FF compatible lenses, it can only look up for that notion.

Julie · 05-19-2012, 11:05 PM

The thing concerning me is that the K-30 will have 16 MP- (not that that is too little, I'd be fine with a 6MP ist) but other cameras in its class are coming out with 24 and are in the same price range.

Try telling someone who is new to photography and looking at an entry level DSLR that MP doesn't matter... of course most are going to want to go to the more-known camera brand that has more MP. I know it took me awhile to learn that it is the photographer- not the camera that matters.

Kryscendo · 05-19-2012, 11:40 PM

The thing with MP is that if you have a sensor that can get away with having more without introducing noise, then the higher MP sensor is in fact, better since you have more pixels and can crop more aggressively and get away with it.

This is actually one of the reasons I give the D800 the crown vs the MkIII. They both are neck and neck in terms of performance, but wait, one has more pixels? Cropping to zoom, recomposing in post, these are much more doable with a higher resolution.

Indeed, it isn't the only thing, and Pentax knows how to eek out great performance, but lets not have sensors running around with twice the resolution out there... that's too big of a gap.

05-19-2012, 09:13 PM	#123
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by karlito does the k5n have avchd video format, and multiple framerate??? i hate mpeg 4 with 25p!!! AVCHD is very limited, meaning it wont yield as much details with the 28 Mbit/s limit for example... It will be AVI with h.264 codec most likely, Pentax are using that now with the Q and the K-01 And for your information AVCHD uses mpeg4 or h.264 as codec Last edited by Anvh; 05-19-2012 at 09:21 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Why full frame?	VoiceOfReason	Pentax DSLR Discussion	208	07-28-2012 08:09 AM
K5 vs Full Frame	KALAIS	Pentax K-5 & K-5 II	21	09-24-2011 11:25 AM
Pentax and Full Frame...	Shutter-bug	Photographic Technique	60	11-03-2010 10:03 AM
Pentax A 50/1.2 on Full Frame	aegisphan	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	23	10-28-2010 04:16 PM
Photokina 2010, Pentax and the full frame mystery	falconeye	Pentax News and Rumors	727	09-03-2010 11:11 AM

05-19-2012, 06:56 PM	#121
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Douglas_of_Sweden I think that argument applies to most tele lenses from about 100mm, so for the same reason the DA200 and DA300 are full frame compatible (in difference to the list in the link you give where they don't seam to believe that the 200mm is FF). That's actually my list. I only counted lenses that are described as full-frame lenses. I included a few others that are full frame capable. Personally I'm worried that If Pentax offered a DX/FX mode, some of these lenses might be inappropriately cropped.

05-19-2012, 07:17 PM	#122
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by ElJamoquio That's actually my list. I only counted lenses that are described as full-frame lenses. I included a few others that are full frame capable. Personally I'm worried that If Pentax offered a DX/FX mode, some of these lenses might be inappropriately cropped. Only a risk it its an auto crop mode vs. a manual control. However, the firmware should also be able to deal with this.

05-19-2012, 09:18 PM	#124
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by Blue Only a risk it its an auto crop mode vs. a manual control. However, the firmware should also be able to deal with this. It would surely default to auto-crop, with an option to manually override (ie 'turn off' crop mode.) To do anything else would be silly and be different (and worse) than the way Nikon does it. Especially for Pentax, which has several DA lenses that are 90-99% FF-capable.

05-19-2012, 09:24 PM	#125
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by jsherman999 It would surely default to auto-crop, with an option to manually override (ie 'turn off' crop mode.) To do anything else would be silly and be different (and worse) than the way Nikon does it. Especially for Pentax, which has several DA lenses that are 90-99% FF-capable. But Pentax has a problem, they have DFA that work on fullframe and DA that wont work on fullframe, they are clear in that so they now are stuck with it. They can't make a list with DA that will work and DA that wont work or rename lenses. So if Pentax is coming with FF camera then this is a big mistake from pentax part, they need to make new lenses for it or it will be market nightmare.

05-19-2012, 09:35 PM	#126
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Anvh They can't make a list with DA that will work and DA that wont work or rename lenses. I agree with you that it's a marketing nightmare. However I think the people who would be purchasing a full-frame camera would be willing and capable to consult a list to see which of the legacy lenses will be 'good' to an 'X' image circle at full aperture. It's not the best thing in the world, and it will be confusing. And yes, pentax can and should rename some lenses from DA to DFA. As long as they allow us to override an autocrop feature, I'm OK with it.

05-19-2012, 09:38 PM	#127
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Pål Jensen There is no 24-75 on the roadmap.... No FF lenses either... We'll find out. IMO there is a FF 24-75 on the roadmap.

05-19-2012, 09:41 PM	#128
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by audiobomber Those focal lengths are highly speculative. We don't know how to interpret the fadeout at each end. These look like 12-28 and 16-85 to me. Indeed, they are speculative. However there are some reports of a 12-24 patent pending in japan. Unfortunately those same reports reference the patent as covering an APS-C sensor.

05-19-2012, 10:04 PM	#129
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Anvh But Pentax has a problem, they have DFA that work on fullframe and DA that wont work on fullframe, they are clear in that so they now are stuck with it. They can't make a list with DA that will work and DA that wont work or rename lenses. So if Pentax is coming with FF camera then this is a big mistake from pentax part, they need to make new lenses for it or it will be market nightmare. Actually, the camera can recognize the lens. Where do you think the EXIF data comes from? Plus, D FA (not the space in between?) and DA are completely different series lenses. The D FA series are all full frame and 2 of them have aperture rings. Pentax won't have to do a 'new' line of lenses for full frame any more than Canon or Nikon did. Besides, the 5 of the FA series is still in production. Edit: BTW, some of the DA will work on full frame. DA 40, DA* 55/1.4 and a few others.

05-19-2012, 10:10 PM	#130
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by ElJamoquio I agree with you that it's a marketing nightmare. However I think the people who would be purchasing a full-frame camera would be willing and capable to consult a list to see which of the legacy lenses will be 'good' to an 'X' image circle at full aperture. It's not the best thing in the world, and it will be confusing. And yes, pentax can and should rename some lenses from DA to DFA. As long as they allow us to override an autocrop feature, I'm OK with it. But you agree that the lenses arent marketable that way sadly, there needs to come a new line however way you turn it.

05-19-2012, 10:21 PM	#131
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by Blue Actually, the camera can recognize the lens. Where do you think the EXIF data comes from? Plus, D FA (not the space in between?) and DA are completely different series lenses. The D FA series are all full frame and 2 of them have aperture rings. Pentax won't have to do a 'new' line of lenses for full frame any more than Canon or Nikon did. Besides, the 5 of the FA series is still in production. Edit: BTW, some of the DA will work on full frame. DA 40, DA* 55/1.4 and a few others. They can, will the viewfinder be cropped as well automaticly or will it be a surprise whenever you put a lens on the camera how it will be cropped? they are basicly stuck with 2 crops, ASP-C and FF or things will get confusing, or they need to go for an electronic viewfinder. And yes Pentax need to make DFA lenses for an FF camera. FF camera will be aimed at more professional users most of them don't want or have the time to search on EBAY to find the lens they need, so a good lens line needs to be there with the basic lenses will a FF be a success. And like i already said, yes the DA*200mm also work great on FF for example but Pentax clearly marketed as DA not as DFA meaning pentax is saying it wont work on FF so there is no way they can market a DA lens as FF lens, it will be highly confusing and a marketing nightmare. Only thing they can do is reintroduce the lens as DFA. I a list of DA lenses that work or not work might be useful for the transaction but it's not the way to go on with, there needs to be a clear line. Nikon and Canon has that clear line for example. And great 5 FA lenses and 2 DFA, good thing is 5 of those are very good prime lenses so that's covered but in this age there needs to be a good zoom, at least 28-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 lens to begin with for a "professional" camera like and FF, new lenses simply need to be made and need to be ready at launch. Without the lenses there is no reason to get such a camera, it's as simple as that.

05-19-2012, 10:40 PM	#132
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Pentax FF has far more lenses than Fuji.

05-19-2012, 10:45 PM	#133
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Another way of putting it: how many people here would buy a FF camera with the current lineup of lenses? With future plans for FF compatible lenses, it can only look up for that notion.

05-19-2012, 11:05 PM	#134
Julie Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Illinois Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,069	The thing concerning me is that the K-30 will have 16 MP- (not that that is too little, I'd be fine with a 6MP ist) but other cameras in its class are coming out with 24 and are in the same price range. Try telling someone who is new to photography and looking at an entry level DSLR that MP doesn't matter... of course most are going to want to go to the more-known camera brand that has more MP. I know it took me awhile to learn that it is the photographer- not the camera that matters.

05-19-2012, 11:40 PM	#135
Kryscendo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 222	The thing with MP is that if you have a sensor that can get away with having more without introducing noise, then the higher MP sensor is in fact, better since you have more pixels and can crop more aggressively and get away with it. This is actually one of the reasons I give the D800 the crown vs the MkIII. They both are neck and neck in terms of performance, but wait, one has more pixels? Cropping to zoom, recomposing in post, these are much more doable with a higher resolution. Indeed, it isn't the only thing, and Pentax knows how to eek out great performance, but lets not have sensors running around with twice the resolution out there... that's too big of a gap.