[ElJamoquio]

But you agree that the lenses arent marketable that way

Correct, but I think that painting 'DFA*' on the 300mm F4 or 'DFA Limited' on the 40mm f/2.8 is straightforward.

[Mistral75]

Pentax FF has far more lenses than Fuji.

And would also have a far tougher competition from Canon, Nikon and Sony than X-Pro1 from... From whom exactly? Leica?

[the swede]

There is no panic for Pentax to update a whole FF line. This will come in time...

What they need to do is officially announce two new zooms at the moment they announce the FF, to establish the trust and confidence for the buyers.
Updating the old FF lenses that are in production will come later on, just like Nikon did with the 1.4 and 1.8 G series (and those are very recent)
In the meantime Pentax has imho the strongest old FF line that still is in production, namely the 31, 43 and 77. Add to that, the FA 50 1.4 and D-FA lenses.
That is high quality lenses, and sales of those will rise upon release of FF.

And other that that.... feel free to use whatever lenses från DA line you know will work!!!

[bossa]

The thing with MP is that if you have a sensor that can get away with having more without introducing noise, then the higher MP sensor is in fact, better since you have more pixels and can crop more aggressively and get away with it.

This is actually one of the reasons I give the D800 the crown vs the MkIII. They both are neck and neck in terms of performance, but wait, one has more pixels? Cropping to zoom, recomposing in post, these are much more doable with a higher resolution.

Indeed, it isn't the only thing, and Pentax knows how to eek out great performance, but lets not have sensors running around with twice the resolution out there... that's too big of a gap.

My D800E shows way less noise than my K-5's and that was my only real complaint with the K-5 but I expect the replacement to reflect the same improvements that the D800 shows.

[bossa]

And would also have a far tougher competition from Canon, Nikon and Sony than X-Pro1 from... From whom exactly? Leica?

I have a D800E and I can't see any real competition with Pentax from Nikon unless most Pentax users suddenly strike it rich. I have no idea why a 200mm F/2 lens that costs 7 grand (here) is their only real 200mm option right now. I just returned a 50/1.4G because it was a POS basically and their wide angles are like expensive giant mushrooms.

If Pentax could just see their way to bringing out a MXD and LXD they'd make a killing with their FA and DFA lenses. I can't bring myself to sell off my Pentax glass right now as I just don't see real alternatives from Nikon in my income bracket. I bought a Sigma 50/1.4 (which kicks the Nikon's arse) and I have ordered an 85 & 150 Macro. I may end up with a 12-24 zoom if I lose my head but more probable is the chance I buy a Zeiss 21/2.8 or a humble Samyang 35/1.4. Pentax are more on the ball than at first they appear. After spending that cash I may be forced to sell off a good deal of my Pentax gear though..

[Mistral75]

I have a D800E (...) I may end up with a 12-24 zoom if I lose my head (...)

You might want to reconsider your choice: the 12-24mm f/4 Nikkor is a DX (APS-C) lens...

Or may be you meant the 14-24mm f/2.8 instead, which is indeed a marvel of a lens.

[bossa]

Oops! I meant the 14-24 F/2.8

Ta for picking that up.

I would never have picked the DX lens...

Just to prove it: I did a few 'test' shots in a store a week ago.

---

Last edited by bossa; 05-20-2012 at 03:49 AM.

[Rondec]

But Pentax has a problem, they have DFA that work on fullframe and DA that wont work on fullframe, they are clear in that so they now are stuck with it.
They can't make a list with DA that will work and DA that wont work or rename lenses.
So if Pentax is coming with FF camera then this is a big mistake from pentax part, they need to make new lenses for it or it will be market nightmare.

Well, I think the obvious answer is to have the camera deal with it. Have an auto crop for each lens. This would not be a standard APS-C crop, but rather what Pentax engineers think is reasonable based on that particular lens and its aperture. This could then be turned if the user didn't desire the auto crop and wanted to crop it themselves.

Full frame users (you would hope) will have done some research and know about the lenses they are using as well as their camera.

[bossa]

I quit photography in 1983 and have only been 'back' since last June. It's a constant trial and error process for me but I think I have a handle on APS-C v FF.

FOV equivalence and DOF are the main issues AFAIK.

APS-C has deeper DOF
FF has more shallow DOF

FF gets into diffraction from f/8 on .. especially on a D800E

If you want the:
1. largest DOF (landscapes) use a APS-c
2. cheapest Telephoto lenses (1.5x converter chucked in) then use APS-C
3. thinnest DOF then use FF
4. equivalent DOF of your FA31 LTD wide open on FF then use a 50mm and back off a few centimeters and stop down to about f/2.8 or 3.2.

I think I've just figured out that I only need FF for portraits and subject isolation where a cheaper, longer focal length lens will deliver superior results but that APS-C will be better for landscape and telephoto stuff..

I hope I'm right because I will have just saved myself a pile of money and financial pain.

[Jean Poitiers]

A quote from the German DSLR forum:
translated:
"... 1.) the last K5s arrived from the Far East
2.) As of May, the K5n will be available (with articulated screen)
3.) As of July/summer there will be a K3

...and the big bang:

a truly professional DSLR (K1?) is due in autumn WITHOUT APSC (!)"

because the original content is in Deutsch which is beyond my understanding, I guess the English is translated by Google translate, which may not exactly express it's original meaning.

Below is the original address, hope this is true although the possibility is low.

K30, K5n, K3 and maybe full-frame at Photokina...: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Bonjour,

Ten pages already, Wow!

But back to the original post cited ... Just FYI, I asked my French wife to translate since her German is good and since she worked there as well. She indicated that the grammar used was not that great ... kind of poor and/or a non-German wrote it possibly.

My point, don't get all excited over Google translations of a not well written forum post. Has any "Germanophones" of PF translated this?

Just curious, because I work in both English and French and can cite more than a few horror stories concerning bad translations between the two tongues!

Here's said text in German ... anyone for a dirrect translation of the below?!

"A quote from the German DSLR forum:
translated:
... Als Fact:
1.) Pentax hat die letzten K5 aus Fernost erhalten
2.) Ab Mai gibt/soll es geben die K5n. Diese hat einen schwenkbaren Monitor (hört, hört)
3.) Für Juli/Somme ist angekündigt die K3. Diese soll als weiterentwickelter Nachfolger der K5 an den Start gehen.
Zu 2 +3 gibt es gibt es wohl schon eine Ankündigung in Papierform (quasi Prospektmaterial).
und nun (großer Tusch)
4.) Am Horizont ist eine Profikamera in Sicht ( soll wohl wirklich K1 heißen), die einen Profistatus haben kann. Es gibt dazu eine Äußerung, daß sie KEINEN APS-C Sensor hat. Ob es denn wirklich Vollformat wird, daß war dann nicht mehr herauszukitzeln (PHOTOKINA , ick hör dir tapsen.....)"

Allez et salut, J Frog

[Allison]

I think I've just figured out that I only need FF for portraits and subject isolation where a cheaper, longer focal length lens will deliver superior results but that APS-C will be better for landscape and telephoto stuff.

These are good points, but a lot of people want FF for its low light performance and IQ with regard to noise. A lot of recent tests will show close ratings when it comes to low light and noise performance between an aps-c and FF, but there is still a difference. I can see it when I am editing pictures taken from a 2nd shooters FF right next to mine.

As you concluded, a lot of wildlife shooters like an aps-c because of the "crop." it is nice to get the added range out of your longest lenses.

As a wedding and portrait shooter, my ideal kit would actually contain both. At a ceremony I would shoot from both cameras, so that I could maximize each of their strengths (width and low noise on ff, telescoping close ups on aps-c). At the reception I could really use that FF!

[Parliament]

[...]
"A quote from the German DSLR forum:
Hallo Mit-Forianer,

ich bin kein Geek und kein Troll, aber mein Händler des Vetrauens hat sich gestern abend verplappert.

Ich war mal die K-01 anschauen und bin dann für mich zum Ergebnis gekommen, daß die nichts für mich ist. Dabei bin ich ins Gespräch gekommen und da ist dann folgendes gesagt worden.


Als Fact:
1.) Pentax hat die letzten K5 aus Fernost erhalten
2.) Ab Mai gibt/soll es geben die K5n. Diese hat einen schwenkbaren Monitor (hört, hört)
3.) Für Juli/Somme ist angekündigt die K3.(That is indeed very incorrect, but i would suspect that he wrote something like "Im Juli/Sommer gibt es die K3" and then changed it and forgot to change the position of "die K3" in the sentence) Diese soll als weiterentwickelter Nachfolger der K5 an den Start gehen.
Zu 2 +3 gibt es gibt es wohl schon eine Ankündigung in Papierform (quasi Prospektmaterial).
und nun (großer Tusch)
4.) Am Horizont ist eine Profikamera in Sicht ( soll wohl wirklich K1 heißen), die einen Profistatus haben kann. Es gibt dazu eine Äußerung, daß sie KEINEN APS-C Sensor hat. Ob es denn wirklich Vollformat wird, daß (not being able to differentiate between "dass" and "das" is typically german, additionally the out-of-date "daß" would indicate that the person went to school earlier than the (mid?) nineties) war dann nicht mehr herauszukitzeln (PHOTOKINA , ick hör dir tapsen (that's some north-german dialect used as a kind of stylistic device to show intimacy between the Photokina and the writer)...)


Da der Kollege selbst begeisterter Pentaxianer ist, der aus das Rumoren im Fandom kennt, halte ich seine AUssagen für glaubwürdig."

Allez et salut, J Frog

Hi Jean,

yes, the grammar is indeed not perfect, but it has that kind of errors a native-speaker would make. Other than that, it has a completely "native-sounding" vocabulary.
Ive added the complete german forum post, so the circumstances of this rumor ar a bit clearer.

My translation would be (i think the same as already was at the beginning):

Hello fellow forum-members,

i am not a geek [possibly wrong use of "geek" by the wrtiter] and not a troll[red flag ], but yesterday evening my trusted camera-dealer gave away too much.

I was looking at the K-01 [in the camera shop] with the result, that it isn't for me.[=i don't like it] In the ensuing conversation i was told the following:

As facts:
1) Pentax [Germany] has received the last shipment of K5 from far-east
2) Starting in may a new K5n should be available. This one has an articulated screen (expression of surprise)
3) A K3 is announced for july/summer. This is supposed to be a [weiterentwickelt~further developed] successor (=~evolution) of the K5.

For 2) and 3) there apparently already exists an announcement on paper (kind of an advertisement folder) [the writer assumes that these exist without having been told so by the salesperson, i think]

and (big surprise!):
4) there is a pro-body on the horizon (which indeed appears to be named K1)[as in previous some rumors?] which has a pro-positioning [on the market]. There was a statement, that it has *NO* APS-C sensor. But i couldn't find out ["tease out"], if it indeed was FF. ([maybe should wait till Photokina?])

Since my mate [the dealer] himself is an ardent pentaxian and knows the [Rumoren = "the rumble", ~the craving for something new (in this context)] of the pentax-fans, so i think his statements are trustworthy.

I personally would suspect that either this dealer made up some new cameras so the writer waits with jumping ship to some other brand, or the writer himself made these up for attention, but i don't really believe that this kind of information is handed out to (common?) dealerships that early.

Cheers,
Alex

[Kenn100D]

Hi Jean,

yes, the grammar is indeed not perfect, but it has that kind of errors a native-speaker would make. Other than that, it has a completely "native-sounding" vocabulary.
Ive added the complete german forum post, so the circumstances of this rumor ar a bit clearer.

My translation would be (i think the same as already was at the beginning):
I personally would suspect that either this dealer made up some new cameras so the writer waits with jumping ship to some other brand, or the writer himself made these up for attention, but i don't really believe that this kind of information is handed out to (common?) dealerships that early.

Cheers,
Alex

Hello,

Actually dealers like this have a 70% chance they are telling the truth. Especially if they are recognized dealer in Pentax Eu via Pentax Website.
I for one experienced it when i was still working in Malta (Pentax Official reseller or retailer). If anybody remember my post about the Q. This one is an example.

AFAIK, Pentax sends catalog for the products that will come in 6 months before announcement of the camera. Also, continuous meeting here and there with the retailers to get there feedback if these cameras are worth selling in their area.

I just hope they are true.

In the end Pentax have the right to say "no" we won't release it or "yes" we proceed as planned.

Best regards,
Kenneth

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

Another way of putting it: how many people here would buy a FF camera with the current lineup of lenses? With future plans for FF compatible lenses, it can only look up for that notion.

But what I meant to say before is that when Pentax started to make APS-C format digital SLRs, they decided to develop mostly a new range of lenses for the digital crop sensor, and that took time since they needed completely new lens designs: 1) Design and patent the lens 2) get the production capacity and train personnel 3) produce and market.
If they want to make new full frame lenses they have a pile of lens designs from the film age to pick from. To a large extent Nikons digital lenses consist of such designs, to a lesser degree Canons. So they could go directly to 2). Do they have the capacity to start new lens production lines? Maybe not while maintaining 645, Q and current K lenses. But the rumor that Ricoh started to rehire lens people that Hoya got rid of could mean something. And Ricoh have had a year to prepare, and have their own fabrication places as well. This is of course an optimistic view. I was actually mostly against a Pentax FF while Hoya owned them, since I didn't believe Hoya was prepared to invest enough to make it work. Ricoh may be.

[jsherman999]

I have a D800E and I can't see any real competition with Pentax from Nikon unless most Pentax users suddenly strike it rich. I have no idea why a 200mm F/2 lens that costs 7 grand (here) is their only real 200mm option right now.

Try to get your hands on a 180 f/2.8 AF-N crinkle finish - $450 -$600 used. Brilliant lens.


.