K30, K5n, K3 and maybe full-frame at Photokina...

eddie1960 · 05-25-2012, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

Well.... if they can make an FF with a special mount that is highly adaptiable to other mounts i don't see it as something negative.
It only makes going from Nikon or Cannon to Pentax FF easier if you can keep using the lenses you have without much limitations.

If they were going to go that route then they should do it in the GXR. In Pentax they should do what they already do build a solid well featured well built DSLR that is compact. that is their distinguishing factor. In the K7 it was recognized by Nikon just look at the D7000 response next model generation. When the big guys copy you you have done something right. they need to do the same in FF. make a camera the FF guys see as a threat on some level

**rparmar** · 05-25-2012, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

No one makes any money making bodies only so people can migrate amongst mounts with lens adapters.

Olympus and Panasonic do. That's one of the attractions of M43, and it certainly sells people on the system. Proof is in the Rangefinder forums, where people buy these systems (and Ricoh) only to retrofit their Leica, Voigtlander, etc. lenses. It can be argued that this was a driving factor in Olympus adopting the PEN styling for their digital bodies. Looks a lot more like a rangefinder that way.

The fact is that Pentax is stuck with the k-mount, a mount that gives them no competitive advantage. Their cameras can't even meter properly. And it forces them into lame systems like the K-01, which is too big and restricted in appeal (compatible with one lens mount) to compete with M43 (compatible with every lens mount in existence).

They would be smarter to leverage their skills in optics into making items like the Limited primes for other mounts. Had they done this out of the gate for M43 they would have absolutely scooped the pent-up demand that Olympus is only years later filling with their fast 45mm and 75mm optics. Sounds uncannily like an FA 43 Limited and FA 77 Limited to me!

Kunzite · 05-25-2012, 06:37 AM

OK, if for a camera company having a mount gives them no competitive advantage and is lame, how do you call not having their own mount?
It would be beyond stupid, to give up on their own mount - lowering themselves to the same level as Samyang and giving up on their identity just to keep few m4/3 owners happy.

Vormulac · 05-25-2012, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by rparmar

. Their cameras can't even meter properly.

What cameras are you talking about? I've never had any trouble metering.

eddie1960 · 05-25-2012, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by Vormulac

What cameras are you talking about? I've never had any trouble metering.

with manual lenses there can be metering issues (particularly m42 when you stop down) Lowell Goudge has done some detailed tests. that being said I don't find the metering any major issue myself
I believe the m 4/3 stuff does meter old lenses more accurately

**monochrome** · 05-25-2012, 07:21 AM

Well this is all encouraaging.

My only questions are whether I should

Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and quit photography altogether
Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and buy a Nokia 808
Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and keep my Olympus XA since they are the future
[EDIT per Aristophanes below:] Sell everything Pentax digital I own while selling is still possible.
1. Use my K lenses, KX and LX until film dies, Eric dies or I die, whichever comes first.

Kunzite · 05-25-2012, 07:25 AM

All of the above

Very informative, last posts. I've found that Pentax should give up on its future because it can't meter properly with lenses using a mount discontinued some 40 years ago. Amazingly, that mount is considered more future-proof than the K-mount...

eddie1960 · 05-25-2012, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

Well this is all encouraaging.

My only questions are whether I should

Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and quit photography altogether
Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and buy a Nokia 808
Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and keep my Olympus XA since they are the future

LOL don't get me wrong, I love my Pentax gear if i sold stuff to get the Nikon it would be other things first that i don't use enough. I could fund it while still keeping a pretty good Pentax kit with 1 body. Same way i would fund a FF Pentax when it comes down to it. thingh is if Pentax doesn't make an announcement the D600 will look ridiculously tempting to many people (hell it will tempt Canon and Sony people as well, and probably m4/3 users even)

**Aristophanes** · 05-25-2012, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

Well this is all encouraaging.

My only questions are whether I should

Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and quit photography altogether
Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and buy a Nokia 808
Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and keep my Olympus XA since they are the future

None.

Be a man.

Back to film.

**maxfield_photo** · 05-25-2012, 07:34 AM

Wait, cameras can meter?! But wouldn't such a reading be a reflected reading? Why, you'd be at the mercy of your subject's color and sheen. And what about the background? If the background were light, and you had a dark subject, wouldn't that throw your meter off? Or a light subject against a dark background? Thanks, but I'll stick to my sekonic.

D0n · 05-25-2012, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by maxfield_photo

Wait, cameras can meter?! But wouldn't such a reading be a reflected reading? Why, you'd be at the mercy of your subject's color and sheen. And what about the background? If the background were light, and you had a dark subject, wouldn't that throw your meter off? Or a light subject against a dark background? Thanks, but I'll stick to my sekonic.

which is great until you need to get a reading off a lion, or crocodile or cliff.... then taking an incident reading can lead to ...well... an incident! lol!

aurele · 05-25-2012, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

thingh is if Pentax doesn't make an announcement the D600 will look ridiculously tempting to many people

indeed.

Vormulac · 05-25-2012, 07:57 AM

Fair enough, I've never had any issues metering with manual lenses on any of my Pentax cameras (K10D, K20D, K-7), guess I got lucky.

StevePrime · 05-25-2012, 08:22 AM

Nor I. If I'm concerned, I'll auto-bracket, but I've never had an issue with exposure.

Anvh · 05-25-2012, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

OK, if for a camera company having a mount gives them no competitive advantage and is lame, how do you call not having their own mount?
It would be beyond stupid, to give up on their own mount - lowering themselves to the same level as Samyang and giving up on their identity just to keep few m4/3 owners happy.

Who is talking about giving up?

If your mount is the limitation to compete with other brands then why on earth would you hang on to it, the longer you hang on to it the further back you get.

If Pentax decide to stay with APS-C i don't see why it would be negative to make a mount specially designed for APS-C, it's only beneficial in the future and with a mount design for APS-C they can actually compete with the FF market better with the APS-C solution.
Surely they also make a good working adapter so you can use your K-mount lenses without restriction, so your K lenses won't become useless.

Pentax also hang on to long with the m42 mount, that didnt do them any good either right....

05-25-2012, 07:21 AM	#366
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Well this is all encouraaging. My only questions are whether I should Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and quit photography altogether Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and buy a Nokia 808 Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and keep my Olympus XA since they are the future *[EDIT per Aristophanes below:] Sell everything Pentax digital* I own while selling is still possible. Use my K lenses, KX and LX until film dies, Eric dies or I die, whichever comes first.** Last edited by monochrome; 05-25-2012 at 09:14 AM.

05-25-2012, 07:29 AM	#368
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by monochrome Well this is all encouraaging. My only questions are whether I should Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and quit photography altogether Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and buy a Nokia 808 Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and keep my Olympus XA since they are the future LOL don't get me wrong, I love my Pentax gear if i sold stuff to get the Nikon it would be other things first that i don't use enough. I could fund it while still keeping a pretty good Pentax kit with 1 body. Same way i would fund a FF Pentax when it comes down to it. thingh is if Pentax doesn't make an announcement the D600 will look ridiculously tempting to many people (hell it will tempt Canon and Sony people as well, and probably m4/3 users even)

05-25-2012, 07:31 AM	#369
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by monochrome Well this is all encouraaging. My only questions are whether I should Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and quit photography altogether Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and buy a Nokia 808 Sell everything Pentax I own while selling is possible and keep my Olympus XA since they are the future None. Be a man. Back to film.

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05-25-2012, 05:22 AM	#361
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by Anvh Well.... if they can make an FF with a special mount that is highly adaptiable to other mounts i don't see it as something negative. It only makes going from Nikon or Cannon to Pentax FF easier if you can keep using the lenses you have without much limitations. If they were going to go that route then they should do it in the GXR. In Pentax they should do what they already do build a solid well featured well built DSLR that is compact. that is their distinguishing factor. In the K7 it was recognized by Nikon just look at the D7000 response next model generation. When the big guys copy you you have done something right. they need to do the same in FF. make a camera the FF guys see as a threat on some level

05-25-2012, 06:25 AM	#362
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,823	Originally posted by Aristophanes No one makes any money making bodies only so people can migrate amongst mounts with lens adapters. Olympus and Panasonic do. That's one of the attractions of M43, and it certainly sells people on the system. Proof is in the Rangefinder forums, where people buy these systems (and Ricoh) only to retrofit their Leica, Voigtlander, etc. lenses. It can be argued that this was a driving factor in Olympus adopting the PEN styling for their digital bodies. Looks a lot more like a rangefinder that way. The fact is that Pentax is stuck with the k-mount, a mount that gives them no competitive advantage. Their cameras can't even meter properly. And it forces them into lame systems like the K-01, which is too big and restricted in appeal (compatible with one lens mount) to compete with M43 (compatible with every lens mount in existence). They would be smarter to leverage their skills in optics into making items like the Limited primes for other mounts. Had they done this out of the gate for M43 they would have absolutely scooped the pent-up demand that Olympus is only years later filling with their fast 45mm and 75mm optics. Sounds uncannily like an FA 43 Limited and FA 77 Limited to me!

05-25-2012, 06:37 AM	#363
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	OK, if for a camera company having a mount gives them no competitive advantage and is lame, how do you call not having their own mount? It would be beyond stupid, to give up on their own mount - lowering themselves to the same level as Samyang and giving up on their identity just to keep few m4/3 owners happy.

05-25-2012, 06:56 AM	#364
Vormulac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 219	Originally posted by rparmar . Their cameras can't even meter properly. What cameras are you talking about? I've never had any trouble metering.

05-25-2012, 07:10 AM	#365
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,667	Originally posted by Vormulac What cameras are you talking about? I've never had any trouble metering. with manual lenses there can be metering issues (particularly m42 when you stop down) Lowell Goudge has done some detailed tests. that being said I don't find the metering any major issue myself I believe the m 4/3 stuff does meter old lenses more accurately

05-25-2012, 07:25 AM	#367
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	All of the above Very informative, last posts. I've found that Pentax should give up on its future because it can't meter properly with lenses using a mount discontinued some 40 years ago. Amazingly, that mount is considered more future-proof than the K-mount...

05-25-2012, 07:34 AM	#370
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	Wait, cameras can meter?! But wouldn't such a reading be a reflected reading? Why, you'd be at the mercy of your subject's color and sheen. And what about the background? If the background were light, and you had a dark subject, wouldn't that throw your meter off? Or a light subject against a dark background? Thanks, but I'll stick to my sekonic.

05-25-2012, 07:54 AM	#371
D0n Banned Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 530	Originally posted by maxfield_photo Wait, cameras can meter?! But wouldn't such a reading be a reflected reading? Why, you'd be at the mercy of your subject's color and sheen. And what about the background? If the background were light, and you had a dark subject, wouldn't that throw your meter off? Or a light subject against a dark background? Thanks, but I'll stick to my sekonic. which is great until you need to get a reading off a lion, or crocodile or cliff.... then taking an incident reading can lead to ...well... an incident! lol!

05-25-2012, 07:54 AM	#372
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	Originally posted by eddie1960 thingh is if Pentax doesn't make an announcement the D600 will look ridiculously tempting to many people indeed.

05-25-2012, 07:57 AM	#373
Vormulac Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 219	Fair enough, I've never had any issues metering with manual lenses on any of my Pentax cameras (K10D, K20D, K-7), guess I got lucky.

05-25-2012, 08:22 AM	#374
StevePrime Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Upper Arlington, OH Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 82	Nor I. If I'm concerned, I'll auto-bracket, but I've never had an issue with exposure.

05-25-2012, 08:47 AM	#375
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by Kunzite OK, if for a camera company having a mount gives them no competitive advantage and is lame, how do you call not having their own mount? It would be beyond stupid, to give up on their own mount - lowering themselves to the same level as Samyang and giving up on their identity just to keep few m4/3 owners happy. Who is talking about giving up? If your mount is the limitation to compete with other brands then why on earth would you hang on to it, the longer you hang on to it the further back you get. If Pentax decide to stay with APS-C i don't see why it would be negative to make a mount specially designed for APS-C, it's only beneficial in the future and with a mount design for APS-C they can actually compete with the FF market better with the APS-C solution. Surely they also make a good working adapter so you can use your K-mount lenses without restriction, so your K lenses won't become useless. Pentax also hang on to long with the m42 mount, that didnt do them any good either right....