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01-20-2008, 04:53 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Looks like an SDM version of the well known 18-55, Richard?
No, not for 18-55 II (or 55-300), the II will be announced this coming week with the bodies.

01-20-2008, 05:00 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mats Quote
Is there a new version of 18-55 mm kit lens coming? Have not heard about a version II before, SDM?
/Mats
Yes, to be announced with the new bodies, and no SDM.
01-20-2008, 05:20 AM   #63
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Target pricing

I believe the K20D will be aimed at or just below the 40D pricings in the respective markets.

It will compete by not being the same, but by offering a different feature set with some new features and performance in specific areas (that both Pentax and many users feel is important) not offered by any APS-C camera "irrespective" of cost.

I also belive the K200D will be aimed at or just below the 400D (XTi), D40x segment. Again it will have a specification and feature set not offered by any other DSLR in it's class.

For those wanting a clone for either Canon, Nikon, Sony or Olympus with a Pentax badge, then look to those brands to satisfy you. Pentax will be different from the others.

I believe that when the new cameras are announced and the features and performance have been fully digested and you sit down and think impassionately and rationally about your photograpic requirements, then most will be delighted with the new offerings.

Not long to go now before the announcements!
01-20-2008, 06:12 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
Pentax should have at least as good performance results as the equivalently priced competition.
But what is "performance", what does this actuall means?
We already have indications that the Pentax will have more resolution than the competition, so in terms of resolution and image quality it is wery likely that Pentax exceeds the level of the competition. I mean, there must be some benefits and advantages with going for a 14Mp sensor instead of the 10Mp sensor in Canon 40D... So in terms of image quality, yes there is a good chance that Pentax will exceed the performance of the Canon. In terms of AF speed and predictive AF - I don't know.

I don't expect the new Pentax to beat the Canon in all areas, but I believe it surely will beat the Canon in some areas. So -

If you want a camera with equal performance in all areas as a Canon, then buy a Canon!
If you want a camera with better performance than Canon in some areas and worse performance in som other areas, then buy a Pentax!

There is nothing as a "free lunch", so Pentax will offer a compromise, like all cameras are offering.
This is the novelty with having different brands and systems, that they are *different* with different strengths and weaknesses. This means that there is a choice for the customers.
If it is a performance like the 40D you really want, then get that camera. Pentax will not make a 40D for you, because that camera already exists. Pentax will provide an alternative with a *different* specification and a *different* mix of performance.

01-20-2008, 06:28 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
I believe the K20D will be aimed at or just below the 40D pricings in the respective markets.

It will compete by not being the same, but by offering a different feature set with some new features and performance in specific areas (that both Pentax and many users feel is important) not offered by any APS-C camera "irrespective" of cost.

I also belive the K200D will be aimed at or just below the 400D (XTi), D40x segment. Again it will have a specification and feature set not offered by any other DSLR in it's class.

For those wanting a clone for either Canon, Nikon, Sony or Olympus with a Pentax badge, then look to those brands to satisfy you. Pentax will be different from the others.

I believe that when the new cameras are announced and the features and performance have been fully digested and you sit down and think impassionately and rationally about your photograpic requirements, then most will be delighted with the new offerings.

Not long to go now before the announcements!


Glad to ear that Richard!

This is exactly what Pentax needs to do to strive in the DSLR market: not trying to replicate the others offerings but being innovative and DIFFERENT!

Exactly what I said in some other thread: Pentax cameras might offer you less in some areas and more in others than the competition at a given price, it's just a matter of choosing what you want and what suits your style best.

The DSLR market is ample enough so that anyone can find a camera that fits.
01-20-2008, 07:00 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Yes, to be announced with the new bodies, and no SDM.
Makes me wonder why, need for higher resolution? larger image circle? weather sealing?
My understanding was that Pentax 18-55 (version 1) performed well compared to competitors.

/Mats
01-20-2008, 07:16 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mats Quote
Makes me wonder why, need for higher resolution? larger image circle? weather sealing?
My understanding was that Pentax 18-55 (version 1) performed well compared to competitors.

/Mats
Many lenses [even very high quality ones] reach their maximum resolution with 10 megapixels. To fully use 14 megapixel you must redesign a sharper lens.
01-20-2008, 07:21 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mats Quote
Makes me wonder why, need for higher resolution? larger image circle? weather sealing?
My understanding was that Pentax 18-55 (version 1) performed well compared to competitors.

/Mats
AFAIK, it will offer better resolution, I don't expect there will be any other additions, after all it is the "kit" lens and will have to be very low cost.

If you think about it, you will need lenses with higher resolution than the current DA 18-55 to show the benefits of a higher MP sensor like the K20D and even the K10D (K200D), so I guess they have tweaked the design to achieve better MTF ratings.

Qudos to Pentax if they have.

As you say, the curent lens is better than the rest, so it will further differentiate them from the others!

01-20-2008, 07:39 AM   #69
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I shall not visit this site again till thursday.
01-20-2008, 10:31 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
No, not for 18-55 II (or 55-300), the II will be announced this coming week with the bodies.
Richard, thanks for the news.

I did not realize there was going to be an upgraded 18-55mm. Sure hope they got rid of the vignetting at 18mm. Outside of this I like my kit lens as it is light and works quite nicely for the price.
01-20-2008, 10:45 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
There has been no indication of the new Pentax to be sold for same as the D300.
All indications has pointed towards Canon 40D-level, which is clearly below D300 level.
Your only concern seems to be predictive AF, but neither the Canon 40D nor the Nikon D300 offers a 14Mp CMOS sensor - have you thought about that, that the new Pentax offers higher resolution than the competition. The Canon 40D only has a 10Mp sensor. One could also say, that if Canon and Sony wish to compete with Pentax at the same price level - they need to offer same high resolution otherwise they would need to sell for less.

It is much more to a camera than just predictive AF.
I have no information on the AF speed and functions in the new Pentax, but I feel that the increase in resolution and the new sensor *alone* makes for a very comeptetive offering to Canon 40D, and means a worthwile upgrade from a K10D. If they add a lot of other things to, then they are a bonus.
The difference between 12MP and 14MP exists only in marketing. It's not a large enough distance to be noticeable in practice. You should see some difference between 10MP and 14MP, but it will be smaller than the jump from 6 to 10MP. Frankly, if the choice is between the resolution of 14MP and the noise performance of 12MP, 12MP is gonna win in my books.

Note I'm expecting 12MP, 3fps bodies from Nikon and Sony at the $999 pricepoint for PMA. I was talking to a Sony rep on friday and he strongly hinted at that(But couldn't give details, likely due to NDA).
01-20-2008, 10:51 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by mawz Quote
The difference between 12MP and 14MP exists only in marketing. It's not a large enough distance to be noticeable in practice. Frankly, if the choice is between the resolution of 14MP and the noise performance of 12MP, 12MP is gonna win in my books.
If you can't see the difference between 14Mp and 12Mp in terms of resolution, then you are unlikely to see a difference between them in terms of noise.
01-20-2008, 12:52 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
That makes it more than the Nikon D 300 if I did the conversion right. There is no way a Pentax can command the premium price a Nikon can. Either Pentax thinks it is better than the D 300 or the price is wrong. A golden rule of marketing is you price to market, not to cost or profit. That means the market will have to perceive it to be better than the D300. If that price is right Pentax must think they have something very special, hope they are right.
I agree with you. There is no way a Pentax K20D will be priced above the Nikon D300. It will not be able to match the prestige of the Nikon brand, nor will it likely match the frame rate of the D300. The K20D will likely have the Sony 12mp CMOS sensor and be priced around the same as the Sony A700 and probably even less. If Pentax prices it too high, then it would have made the same mistake it did with the *ist D, a very good camera, perhaps even best in its class, but ignored by most consumers because of its high price.
01-20-2008, 12:55 PM   #74
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[QUOTE=Anastigmat;157243] The K20D will likely have the Sony 12mp CMOS sensor QUOTE]

Time to take a bet on this... $100?
01-20-2008, 01:01 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
I believe the K20D will be aimed at or just below the 40D pricings in the respective markets.

It will compete by not being the same, but by offering a different feature set with some new features and performance in specific areas (that both Pentax and many users feel is important) not offered by any APS-C camera "irrespective" of cost.

I also belive the K200D will be aimed at or just below the 400D (XTi), D40x segment. Again it will have a specification and feature set not offered by any other DSLR in it's class.

For those wanting a clone for either Canon, Nikon, Sony or Olympus with a Pentax badge, then look to those brands to satisfy you. Pentax will be different from the others.

I believe that when the new cameras are announced and the features and performance have been fully digested and you sit down and think impassionately and rationally about your photograpic requirements, then most will be delighted with the new offerings.

Not long to go now before the announcements!
Difference is fine, but difference per se is not an attractive feature. Better is of course better than different. Pentax cannot market its products successfully by being "different", it must pursue a different and better strategy of being "better." Without a full frame, it is tough to be better than Canon and Nikon. All that Pentax can hope for is being better than the 40D and the Nikon D300 in terms of image quality. That is certainly achievable but the market is shifting to full frame. I think Photokina 08 will be most interesting because by then Sony will have announced its flagship full frame model, and Canon will probably have released its successor to the low priced 5D. It will be interesting to see if Pentax will announce a full frame DSLR of its own by then and it will be interesting to see how Olympus will be affected.
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