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01-21-2008, 10:50 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
I believe the K20D will be aimed at or just below the 40D pricings in the respective markets.

It will compete by not being the same, but by offering a different feature set with some new features and performance in specific areas (that both Pentax and many users feel is important) not offered by any APS-C camera "irrespective" of cost.

I also belive the K200D will be aimed at or just below the 400D (XTi), D40x segment. Again it will have a specification and feature set not offered by any other DSLR in it's class.

For those wanting a clone for either Canon, Nikon, Sony or Olympus with a Pentax badge, then look to those brands to satisfy you. Pentax will be different from the others.

I believe that when the new cameras are announced and the features and performance have been fully digested and you sit down and think impassionately and rationally about your photograpic requirements, then most will be delighted with the new offerings.

Not long to go now before the announcements!
I expect the K200D to be near-identical to the Sony A200 in most regards(sensor, fps, ISO range, shutter, viewfinder), but offer certain Pentax exclusives to differentiate itself (Green Button, Sv mode, AA batteries).

As to the K20D. I expect certain minimum specs from the pricepoint (5fps, 1/8000 max shutter, 1/250th sync, 15-20 RAW buffer, pentaprism, dual-wheel interface, solid build, all of which the other cameras at this pricepoint deliver). Other than that, there's a lot of room for Pentax to differentiate themselves from Nikon, Canon and Sony. I expect Pentax to do so via its exposure modes (Sv, TAv), interface (Green button) and whatever is causing people to snerk about the K20D's capabilities (which I hope isn't some sort of stupid Video capability, leave that to P&S's).

The rumours have me worried. What's been rumoured looks to me to be a competitive to ground-breaking camera at the $999 pricepoint, but an also-ran for $1300 due to missing the basic camera specs that all the competition offers. Note that Nikon, Canon and Sony all share this basic specs, but differentiate on different things (Nikon: build/sealing/configurability; Sony: Stabilization/high ISO performance/rear LCD/ergonomics & UI/DRO; Canon: Name recognition/fps/14-bit RAW/Live View). Pentax should do the same with regards to the basic specs.

01-21-2008, 10:50 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Hmm. So...

What does this say about all other existing Pentax lenses, besides the 18-55? Are they going to start showing their true resolution deficiencies now with the new bodies?

Or are we talking about resolution at the pixel-peeping level - when you're able to zoom in much further into the bits, you see more, but the real image looks the same at the same magnification as before?

It's a bit concerning if all our existing K-mount lenses start producing crap with the new cameras...
Dam i really hope this isnt the case but thats a good point. I think Canon users ran into the same problem when the MKII was released. CA's was the biggest problem....something the recent line of DA's (even some of the class FA's) have problems with already at 10mp.
01-21-2008, 10:57 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Hmm. So...

What does this say about all other existing Pentax lenses, besides the 18-55? Are they going to start showing their true resolution deficiencies now with the new bodies?

Or are we talking about resolution at the pixel-peeping level - when you're able to zoom in much further into the bits, you see more, but the real image looks the same at the same magnification as before?

It's a bit concerning if all our existing K-mount lenses start producing crap with the new cameras...
The other DA lenses likely don't have issues with the higher resolution sensors. As good as the 18-55 was compared to its competition, it is also clearly the poorest performing DA lens (Albeit simply because the other DA's are extremely good lenses). Pentax wasn't in a similar position to Sony where their kit 18-70 is so bad that it can barely handle 6MP bodies, let alone 10MP bodies.
01-21-2008, 11:02 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
This is definitely wrong.

1. I do not want to do all the maths again, but we discussed this recently on dpreview and the result was that the good lenses (basically all Pentax fixed focals) reach their limit somewhere at 18 Megapixel.

2. Even if you are right, there is no need to redesign new lenses. It is actually better that the lens limits the resolution and not the sensor. This way you avoid all sorts of sensor resolution artifacts (Nyquist etc.).

3. No, you are 100% right, sell all your K, M and A lenses to me!

You may be jumping the gun a bit too quick here because:

1/ There's not only prime lenses in eitgher DA or FA or earlier lenses so your point do contradict only part of Rolnad statement

2/ We still do not know if it uses Bayer system. Rumours indicated it uses another system, in such case the sensor might resolve quite a bit better than Bayer one and so need better lenses. Those 18Mpix you quote are probably true considering a Bayer sensor. We'll see what's the new sensor brings to the table.

01-21-2008, 11:10 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
You may be jumping the gun a bit too quick here because:

1/ There's not only prime lenses in eitgher DA or FA or earlier lenses so your point do contradict only part of Rolnad statement

2/ We still do not know if it uses Bayer system. Rumours indicated it uses another system, in such case the sensor might resolve quite a bit better than Bayer one and so need better lenses. Those 18Mpix you quote are probably true considering a Bayer sensor. We'll see what's the new sensor brings to the table.
I do wonder if it uses that new Kodak tech that intersperses a Bayer pattern with luminance pixels. That could make for some incredible high ISO performance (But may cost low-ISO capability).
01-21-2008, 11:21 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by mawz Quote
As to the K20D. I expect certain minimum specs from the pricepoint (5fps, 1/8000 max shutter, 1/250th sync, 15-20 RAW buffer, pentaprism, dual-wheel interface, solid build, all of which the other cameras at this pricepoint deliver).
My expectation is certainly different from yours. I don't have this preconceived "minimum specs". To be honest, K10D is serving me quite well, and I can only recall a handful of times when I need the 3fps or 1/4000 shutter it offers. Everyone's shooting style is different. So I will judge K20D as a whole to see if it is a worthwhile upgrade for me.

I am sure K20D would offer features not available in other camera at this pricepoint (and we don't even know for sure what pricepoint that is ); and K20D may not have some features available in other camera (like one user said he won't buy K20D if it does not have the 900k rear LCD.... :ugh: ).
01-21-2008, 11:23 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
You may be jumping the gun a bit too quick here because:

1/ There's not only prime lenses in eitgher DA or FA or earlier lenses so your point do contradict only part of Rolnad statement

2/ We still do not know if it uses Bayer system. Rumours indicated it uses another system, in such case the sensor might resolve quite a bit better than Bayer one and so need better lenses. Those 18Mpix you quote are probably true considering a Bayer sensor. We'll see what's the new sensor brings to the table.
Well, of course, we will see ...

The latest DA lenses also do not resolve notably better than old K lenses.
01-21-2008, 12:57 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
This is definitely wrong.

1. I do not want to do all the maths again, but we discussed this recently on dpreview and the result was that the good lenses (basically all Pentax fixed focals) reach their limit somewhere at 18 Megapixel.

2. Even if you are right, there is no need to redesign new lenses. It is actually better that the lens limits the resolution and not the sensor. This way you avoid all sorts of sensor resolution artifacts (Nyquist etc.).

3. No, you are 100% right, sell all your K, M and A lenses to me!

1. I pointed out what i heard, i'm not an optical engineer, so sorry for the wrong statement: anyway, zoom lenses are always less sharp than fixed ones so maybe both of us are right..then there is also a bit of difference between maths and real world

2. From a pixel peeper point of view [which i'm not] this statement won't work. Then, if the camera is high end very bit of sharpness is vital. Anyway to "redesign" i inteded "pimpin' a bit" the sharpness.

3. My DA 18-55, with a front lens little scratch [not affecting IQ at all]. Then i use only M42 lenses


Finally, i'm not saying "older lenses will be crap" absolutely not, read point 3 i only say that probably you won't really use EVERY single pixel of the new sensor.


Last edited by zntgrg; 01-21-2008 at 01:03 PM.
01-21-2008, 03:50 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by mawz Quote
The other DA lenses likely don't have issues with the higher resolution sensors. As good as the 18-55 was compared to its competition, it is also clearly the poorest performing DA lens (Albeit simply because the other DA's are extremely good lenses). Pentax wasn't in a similar position to Sony where their kit 18-70 is so bad that it can barely handle 6MP bodies, let alone 10MP bodies.
Sony's 18-70 is pretty good, though not as good as Pentax's 18-55, and certainly much better than Canon's 18-55 II (which they really had to address with the 18-55 IS). Canon's 18-55 II is arguably the worst kit lens, in my opinion.
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