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01-22-2008, 06:49 PM   #121
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Will a ballpark price be coming when the camera is announced? I am ready to drop on a new body and really would like to know if I will be able to afford this or if I should just go ahead and find a K10D?

01-22-2008, 08:10 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by lost Quote
Will a ballpark price be coming when the camera is announced? I am ready to drop on a new body and really would like to know if I will be able to afford this or if I should just go ahead and find a K10D?
It's pretty likely there'll be a ballpark price, yeah.
01-22-2008, 10:49 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by lost Quote
Will a ballpark price be coming when the camera is announced? I am ready to drop on a new body and really would like to know if I will be able to afford this or if I should just go ahead and find a K10D?
E1299 with kit lens is the pricing that leaked. Likely the same in USD. I'm guessing $1150-1199 or so body-only.
01-23-2008, 01:23 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by blwnhr Quote
To add my 2-cents to the focus speed and focus point debate I will refer to the 2 images I've posted links to below.

Having multiple focus points is essential. It is, especially in sports photography, not an option to recompose. Take the first image of a car, the focus point is set to the middle-right point so as to keep the front of the car in focus. In the soccer example I had the farthest-right point selected as I was shooting in portrait and wanted to be certain the subjects head was always in focus.

Focus was tracking on the front-left (camera-right) headlight.
Focus was tracking on this boys face.


In sports shooting you need quick, accurate AF and high FPS. These go hand in hand, as we've discovered with the K10D. I, personally, would like to see at least 40D-grade AF, hopefully nearing D300. 11 AF points is good, some more would be better, but mainly accuracy and the ability to predict what is happening.

The prediction side of things Pentax simply can not do. I'm now finding myself shooting more and more sports and finding the limitations of the K10D AF system regularly. For examples like the one posted below the Pentax simply couldn't handle it, yet I shot the same corner with the same lens (both 50-500's) on a 40D and it was spot on every time.

Notice how the focus is on the base of the windscreen? The camera focussed on the front bumper, but because it couldn't predict where it was going to be it fouled up the focus.

This is most certainly a selling point. Not just for me, but a lot of others. There is a massive market here.
If Pentax can pull off a quality body with solid FPS performance and a spot-on AF system such as the 40D or even the previous 1D Mark II N then Pentax sports shooters such as yourself should rejoice. My concern is with the constant evolution of bodies there's still no support for long, fast lenses for the sports folk. The Nikon D300's 51-point area AF is quite phenomenal but if Pentax goes that route I would really hope they start pushing some more telephoto glass out in sync with such a body.

The example you posted is a common problem with any AF system, even my 40D and 1Dmk2n suffer the same fate with objects traveling towards camera (it's a depth perception issue) and Nikon's D300 and D3 have the same ordeal. The only alleviation I've had with this is strapping a 2.8 or faster lens (either the 120-300 Sigma 2.8 or the 70-200 2.8) on the 40D and using its increased AF mode with center-point. So Ben if you're reading this, put the bug in Pentax's ear about objects traveling towards camera with AF

01-23-2008, 01:40 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by smcclelland Quote
The example you posted is a common problem with any AF system, even my 40D and 1Dmk2n suffer the same fate with objects traveling towards camera (it's a depth perception issue) and Nikon's D300 and D3 have the same ordeal. The only alleviation I've had with this is strapping a 2.8 or faster lens (either the 120-300 Sigma 2.8 or the 70-200 2.8) on the 40D and using its increased AF mode with center-point. So Ben if you're reading this, put the bug in Pentax's ear about objects traveling towards camera with AF
I have seen pretty good results from the D3 with objects travelling towards the camera.
One I remember was a dog doing some slalom run directly towards the camera, the guy had 7 out of 9 frames correctly focused IIRC.

So somebody can do it, the thing about the D3 is the complexity of the focus settings, trust me it is massive, so getting it set up correctly will seriously affect the results. I have spend 2 weeks with my D3 and I have not even come close to finding out how to get the most from the AF system... but initial results looks decent enough.

Not bashing anything, but the D3 and the 1DIII (that is what I have heard anyway) both seems to pull it off, but again it is a completely different market they are aimed at.
01-23-2008, 02:31 PM   #126
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has any commented on the shake reduction (SR) using manual zoom lenses?
will it adjust with the zoom or will the SR stay at a fixed focal length?
01-23-2008, 02:35 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by ricosuave Quote
has any commented on the shake reduction (SR) using manual zoom lenses?
will it adjust with the zoom or will the SR stay at a fixed focal length?
All K and M lenses send no information to the camera so that would not work. The A lenses I think only sends lens identification, not the focal length, but I am not sure. So unless they have put in some really special sensor like a laser trying to figure out the focal length it will not happen with old lenses.

Edit: Maybe I should be clear. I am sure they have not put in any laser in the camera, that woul not make sense. So expect to have to change the SR setting if using old zooms, switch off the SR or use primes.
01-23-2008, 02:50 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by quarc Quote
All K and M lenses send no information to the camera so that would not work. The A lenses I think only sends lens identification, not the focal length, but I am not sure. So unless they have put in some really special sensor like a laser trying to figure out the focal length it will not happen with old lenses.

Edit: Maybe I should be clear. I am sure they have not put in any laser in the camera, that woul not make sense. So expect to have to change the SR setting if using old zooms, switch off the SR or use primes.
But that's a good idea. You could have a single LED shining from the inside of the lens, the sensor captures an image and figures the FL from the pattern on the glass. So much hassle for lazy photographers huh?

01-23-2008, 02:56 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by quarc Quote
All K and M lenses send no information to the camera so that would not work. The A lenses I think only sends lens identification, not the focal length, but I am not sure. So unless they have put in some really special sensor like a laser trying to figure out the focal length it will not happen with old lenses.

Edit: Maybe I should be clear. I am sure they have not put in any laser in the camera, that woul not make sense. So expect to have to change the SR setting if using old zooms, switch off the SR or use primes.

Only F and later lenses send focal length information.
01-24-2008, 01:14 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
I really don't know where to start. This is a camera that is almost too quiet, if there is such a thing. Smooth and buttery response. The images shot at the mid iso settings are as clean as 100-160 on the K10D. The colour is magnificent. The noise levels at the top iso end of this camera are about the same as 640 to 1000 on the K10D. As I will not get in to specifics until the embargo has been lifted, I will say this. As an ex-Canon user and sponsored by them, I had an opportunity to use all of their products. This camera is as good or better than the Canon products. The noise shown in the upper iso area looks more like fine film grain than digital noise.

I am using a pre-production version and being firmware 0.39 there will be some upgrades. I have already sent my impressions to Pentax.

This is the best camera on the market today in the mid to upper mid price range. It will compete with the top of the line Nikon and Canon and will do so with no excuses. It won't be fair to compare this camera to the Canon 40D & Nikon D90 as this camera is out of their league and swims comfortably in the waters of the Canon 1D mk lll and Nikon D300...

None the less, if you have any questions feel free to ask. Oh and by the way. Better get a huge 4 Gig SD card as this baby produces files that are almost 50 percent larger than the K10D

Ben
Hi Ben, sounds very interesting with quiet shutter. And ability of Iso 6400, indicates usable Iso 3200. And high quality IQ at mid-level Iso, sounds appealing too. I also like the IR filter setting, sounds like fun.
20 frames a second at 1.6MP, is gonna be interesting. If one makes sure that there will be little need to crop, it could be useful. For occasional newspaper sportshooters, this speed could come in handy, as top IQ is not needed, but speed is.

Users of the 4MP Nikon D2Hs stated that the high quality pixels of that camera, looked as good as their 10MP D200. And that even in 2006 they were going for extra D2Hs bodies, as they liked the output.
I wonder if the 1.6 MP will also be helpful in darker shooting conditions, e.g. on a safari.


Sounds like the K20 is a very worthy follow-up to the K10. I do not really need a new digital body right now, as I recently got the K10. But my sister and her boyfriend are leaving this summer for a trip to Venice, Italy. I was thinking about lending them my K10, as they wanted to take some pictures that could be blown up big, and their P&S wasn’t up for the task. A young couple in a romantic city, they’ll probably forget the camera somewhere, or have it stolen; then I could with a clear conscience upgrade to the K20 instead . Else I would find it hard to justify.


The K20 is gonna compete on IQ. So it is gonna be interesting to see what output it is capable of delivering. The pictures from the Dubai desert trip, looked like people had had an exciting time. Price will probably stabilize in time, just over 1.000 US, at 1.100-1.200. Sounds reasonable for a good camera.


When the K10 was originally released, it was announced as a mid-level segment camera. And that a top-level camera spec’d wise, was in the pipeline. Having recently got the K10, though the K20 is tempting, the K1/K5 is really gonna be more what I was thinking of considering. That would be the same CMOS sensor, but with 4 channel readout. Maybe an 8 or 10 MP high speed shooting mode with 6-8 FPS, and 30-40 RAW buffer. Integrated battery grip, and coming out at around 2.000-2.500 US. I would imagine that they’re still working on an improved AF system, but as I’m still looking at lenses, not a big rush for me. With Pentax good reputation for quality ViewFinder, this would again be a good bonus, with also a step up here. Announcement at the end of the year, would be perfect for me.


Thanks for all the info along the way, prior to this K20 release. It’s been fun.

Last edited by Jonson PL; 01-24-2008 at 05:12 AM.
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