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06-12-2012, 10:01 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
This has been quoted a few times as being "clear", but I find it clear as mud -- business idiot-speak.

... Business idiot-speak.

Wasn't saying Ned's statement was clear, but that he clearly would have been lying in the example I put forth.

The relationship is Ricoh's ownership of Pentax Ricoh USA. To say this ownership was in no way responsible for going to UPP IF Ricoh was behind it would clearly be a lie.

Instead, Ned's statement would (seem to) mean going to UPP was a given, a decision/agreement made by someone/some entity besides Ricoh.


Last edited by jmg257; 06-12-2012 at 10:22 AM.
06-12-2012, 10:06 AM   #122
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Maybe Canon folks forged a memo and sent it to Denver via overnight courier. :Hysterical:
06-12-2012, 10:09 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Maybe Canon folks forged a memo and sent it to Denver via overnight courier. :Hysterical:

NICE!

"In order to better compete with us, I mean 'with Canon', Pentax must..."
06-12-2012, 10:19 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
What is your point? The only thing Pentax has done in that period dSLR wise is to announce the K-30. However, I would say that Canon's announcement of the 40mm would correspond to the DA 40 XS price wise but may compete with the DA 40/2.8 LTD performance wise. The Canon 18-135 STM is designed for movie shooting (so is their 40mm) in mind and is supposed to be matched to the new Rebel. The Nikon lens is a fast 28. The 31mm wasn't effected by the UPP PRIC pricing. Plus, Canon and Nikon have their existing Catalog still in place.
My point is that there seemed to be a window in which very little was introduced into the marketplace that was equitable with anything that Pentax was offering. The Canon pancake and T4i were just introduced recently AFAIK. That may have signified the end to UPP. Whether right, wrong, asinine, etc., PRIC, PRICL or PRIAC (or whatever you want to call them depending on if you think UPP was directed from the USA or Japan) might have seen the oppurtunity to enhance their profit margins before anything new and competitve was introduced. Perhaps that was the main reason for UPP in the first place and the reason why it is seemingly ending.

P.S. I would hope that the moderator would close this thread. What is to be gained by roasting and defending Ned Brunnel here?

06-12-2012, 10:26 AM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
My point is that there seemed to be a window in which very little was introduced into the marketplace that was equitable with anything that Pentax was offering. The Canon pancake and T4i were just introduced recently AFAIK. That may have signified the end to UPP. Whether right, wrong, asinine, etc., PRIC, PRICL or PRIAC (or whatever you want to call them depending on if you think UPP was directed from the USA or Japan) might have seen the oppurtunity to enhance their profit margins before anything new and competitve was introduced. Perhaps that was the main reason for UPP in the first place and the reason why it is seemingly ending.

P.S. I would hope that the moderator would close this thread. What is to be gained by roasting and defending Ned Brunnel here?
That was nothing to do with roasting or defending Ned. I merely listed the stuff introduced by Pentax, Nikon and Canon as per your question. Furthermore, according to the announcement, the additional money from the price increase supposedly didn't go to Pentax according to the blog. That is how they spun the angle that it wasn't a price increase but a MSRP enforcement. Furthermore, if sales tanked as a result of the UPP, I doubt anyone's profit margins were increased. Plus, Nikon and Canon still has their catolog in place. I think calling Ned a liar at this point is a bit much but he did put himself in between someone and a lame plan.

Edit: I like how 3 of the guys get into these threads and when the debate isn't going their way, they want to play moderator. As far as Ned goes, I have always liked Ned and his blog. Actually, I thought his blog was better before he moved it to Postereous (sp?). However, that doesn't mean I have to like or agree with the UPP or its explanation.

Last edited by Blue; 06-12-2012 at 10:38 AM.
06-12-2012, 10:36 AM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
That was nothing to do with roasting or defending Ned...

Furthermore, if sales tanked as a result of the UPP, I doubt anyone's profit margins were increased.

Edit: I like how 3 of the guys get into these threads and when the debate isn't going their way, they want to play moderator.
I wasn't directing that at anyone in particular. It just seems like the thread has deteriorated into a he-said / he-didn't-say pissing match.

Also, I didnt' say that UPP was successful, but if it was, someone's profit margins would have likely increased.

Response to your edit: I have no interest in debating whether UPP worked, or was a good or bad idea, or who decided to implement it. Nothing that I have written in this thread alludes to any of that. Feel free to continue whatever you set out to do. I don't think that it is very productive, however.
06-12-2012, 10:42 AM   #127
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Good but not good enough!
06-12-2012, 10:45 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
Wasn't saying Ned's statement was clear, but that he clearly would have been lying in the example I put forth.
If you can decipher just what his statement means. But I can't -- to me he is obfuscating. Neither lying nor telling the truth, just filling up space with words that have no meaning. He is clearly denying something -- misinformed speculations -- but his statement hardly puts everything to rest because he doesn't clearly state what is true, only vaguely denies some things to be untrue.

06-12-2012, 11:09 AM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
[...]That may have signified the end to UPP.[...]Perhaps that was the main reason for UPP in the first place and the reason why it is seemingly ending.
Oh, boy. What is ending? People here really likes to discuss made-up nonsense.

Between April 1st and June 8h, we had the following DSLR products:
Canon:
- EOS D60a
- EOS 1D-C
- EOS 650D
- EF 40mm STM
- EF 18-135 STM
Last 3 being launched on June, 8th.

Nikon:
- D3200
- 28mm f/1.8 G
(no D4, D800...)

Pentax:
- K30
- DA 50mm f/1.8
I don't see why Pentax would be "scared", nor how it is relevant for our discussion.
06-12-2012, 11:16 AM - 1 Like   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Oh, boy. What is ending? People here really likes to discuss made-up nonsense.

Between April 1st and June 8h, we had the following DSLR products:
Canon:
- EOS D60a
- EOS 1D-C
- EOS 650D
- EF 40mm STM
- EF 18-135 STM
Last 3 being launched on June, 8th.

Nikon:
- D3200
- 28mm f/1.8 G
(no D4, D800...)

Pentax:
- K30
- DA 50mm f/1.8
I don't see why Pentax would be "scared"...
I think that you are completely misunderstanding my point. Let me know if you want me to explain it again.
06-12-2012, 11:30 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
Instead, Ned's statement would (seem to) mean going to UPP was a given, a decision/agreement made by someone/some entity besides Ricoh.
Which is impossible. "Ned" is Ricoh/Pentax. Their voices are a single chorus.
06-12-2012, 11:36 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
Also, I didnt' say that UPP was successful, but if it was, someone's profit margins would have likely increased.
There two separate but related issues here.

UPP and prices.

UPP is the mechanism to determine and set prices, while the wholesale price is simply a number.

UPP has not gone anywhere. Regardless, it was the associated increase in prices that set everyone off.

"Ned" could easily be saying that the UPP is a Pentax USA idea, cleverly dodging the more obvious fact that the price increases came from over his shoulder in Tokyo.

The facts do not support a local, USA-made decision to astronomically raise prices in the US market.

Last edited by Aristophanes; 06-12-2012 at 12:12 PM.
06-12-2012, 11:51 AM   #133
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Single chorus... I understand now, you're confusing Ricoh/Pentax/Ned with the Borg Collective. Too much Star Trek...

What if there isn't any decision to astronomically raise prices in the US market? What if the UPP+MSRP situation was intended to be temporary, only until the UPP would be in place? The most important thing, probably, is to have everything working (an US-wide distribution network, including B&M stores) asap, to support Pentax growth plans - with the new products that are coming. Doing this in the ideal way but much slower may not be an option.
And from what I see, UPP still isn't working that well (which supports my hypothesis of "no time, no resources but must do it regardless"); B&H and Amazon selling for the new prices, Adorama still with MSRP...

Last edited by Kunzite; 06-12-2012 at 12:04 PM.
06-12-2012, 11:58 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Instead, Ned's statement would (seem to) mean going to UPP was a given, a decision/agreement made by someone/some entity besides Ricoh.

Which is impossible. "Ned" is Ricoh/Pentax. Their voices are a single chorus.
What is impossible? The agreement not being in any way due to Ricoh?
As to the rest about Ned vs Ricoh/Pentax...huh???


QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
...
"Ned" could easily be saying that the UPP is a Pentax USA idea, cleverly dodging the more obvious fact that the price increases came from over his shoulder in Tokyo.

The facts do not support a local, USA-made decision to astronomically raise prices in the US market.

Hmmm..."Ned could be saying that the UPP is a Pentax USA idea" - now doesn't that sound familiar? {"...going to UPP was a given, a decision/agreement made by someone/some entity besides Ricoh"}. Hmmm...how about just a Pentax decision, maybe in the works for a while, that wasn't dependent on Ricoh?


Ahh..so I see now it is a fact that price increases came from RIcoh? Well, IF that is the case, NED (in a solo performance) did lie since HE posted otherwise on HIS blog.

Whew - took a long time to get right back around to the beginning!

Last edited by jmg257; 06-12-2012 at 12:23 PM.
06-12-2012, 12:15 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
If you can decipher just what his statement means. But I can't -- to me he is obfuscating. Neither lying nor telling the truth, just filling up space with words that have no meaning. He is clearly denying something -- misinformed speculations -- but his statement hardly puts everything to rest because he doesn't clearly state what is true, only vaguely denies some things to be untrue.

Understood. He was apparently dispelling rumours about Ricoh being in any way involved, but more definitive then that...?!?
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