[mattdm]

i bought the k10d ultimately because of what appeared to be the most balance site of reviews, and this is their quote that sealed it ([url]www.imaging-resource.com):

For what it's worth, I bought my K100D after the the glowing review on dpreview.com, and upgraded to the K10D largely on the strength of further information in that review (combined with actually looking at the jpeg output for myself).

[Ivan Glisin]

It's sharp, it's bright, it's IQ is unmatched. I've shot with 1DMKIII's, 1DsMKIII's, 40D's, A700's, lenses that I can't even afford and nothing has given me what I have on my desktop right now.

Something is not right!!! If the image quality is that much better even when compared to Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III (21MP!!!) the only explanation could be that we are not talking about Bayer pattern sensor here!

Is it possible that Samsung has managed to pull out the true 14MP X3 Foveon-style three-layer CMOS sensor with 42M effective photo sites?!?!?! Or something else other than RGGB Bayer pattern sensor?

[Kaimarx]

Im pretty sure its Pentax designed whatever sensor it is. From what ive gathered they have been working on it for a number of years (could be using technology that was intended for the 645d a while back?). Samsung are the manufacturers.

[mattdm]

Im pretty sure its Pentax designed whatever sensor it is. From what ive gathered they have been working on it for a number of years (could be using technology that was intended for the 645d a while back?). Samsung are the manufacturers.

If it was 645D tech, it was a secret project -- the various published specs all included sensors from Kodak.

[Tom M]

If it was 645D tech, it was a secret project -- the various published specs all included sensors from Kodak.

Was an 18mp Kodak sensor.

[leadbelly]

You may not have to wait that long...

Ben

Hmmm, are you implying Ben that we will have an announcement on OUR 24th? That's tomorrow!

[Kaimarx]

For what it's worth, I bought my K100D after the the glowing review on dpreview.com, and upgraded to the K10D largely on the strength of further information in that review (combined with actually looking at the jpeg output for myself).

Yep, as bad as Phils review went down in the Pentax world his RAW review was partly what caught my interest in the K10...after seeing the results in person i was sold.

[Kaimarx]

If it was 645D tech, it was a secret project -- the various published specs all included sensors from Kodak.

Heh sorry for the misunderstanding, i was more referring to the design research and philosophies driving the hardware which is in itself part of the technology...hardware is always subject to change. Unless of course, Pentax 645D is alive and kicking and this new sensor technology just came up over the last year or so which would be a mean feat indeed.

[mattdm]

Something is not right!!! If the image quality is that much better even when compared to Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III (21MP!!!) the only explanation could be that we are not talking about Bayer pattern sensor here!

I doubt it's Foveon-style -- that sounds better in theory, but has issues in practice. (For one thing, instead of the x and y axis interpolation one gets with bayer, the silicon wavelength absorption isn't as pretty in real life as it is in the foveon diagrams, so you end up with a sort of "z axis" interpolation.)

Is it possible that Samsung has managed to pull out the true 14MP X3 Foveon-style three-layer CMOS sensor with 42M effective photo sites?!?!?! Or something else other than RGGB Bayer pattern sensor?

I wonder if it's something with a pure-luminosity sensor mixed in the pattern, or something with varying sizes a la Fujifilm. I guess we'll find out.

[nosnoop]

I doubt it's Foveon-style....
I wonder if it's something with a pure-luminosity sensor mixed in the pattern, or something with varying sizes a la Fujifilm. I guess we'll find out.

I believe it is just a refinement and optimization of the Bayer sensor. In the Korean article described here :https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/18998-gx-20-news-korean-newspaper.html and in the German articles, they were talking about reducing power consumption, increasing sensitivities, miniaturizing circuitry leading increased relative size of the photosite. And the Korean article also confirmed that the CMOS was designed by Pentax and produced by Samsung.

[Jonson PL]

Ben you gave it away! LOL!

Well yes Ben is my source and the images have all exif intact and the everyprogam shows K20D so to be honest thats a great sign indeed!

I just compared some Sony A700 shots and its like night and day! The images look so watercoloured from the A700 sensor while the K20D retains so much more detail and even at a higher ISO. I think Phil will be surprised when he sees the images form this camera! He loved the A700, he'll freak when he see's the K20D images.

Hi Chris,
I would have never guessed it, as you called Ben a Gentle-man
Jokes aside, I went digital with the K10, and replaced my 8-year old film SLR Z-1P. My plan was in time to get a second DSLR body, but wanted to wait for possibly the K1/K5. So hope I can calm my CBA, as I really don’t need a new one already.


Don’t count on Phil seeing the potential with the K20, he doesn’t take the real life photos that Ben does. He’ll grab some shots of an old bottle and some crayons, enlarge them 113 %, and complain about how now he would like it to be more neutral, but that Pentax have made the output too vibrant, or something else.
Remember in the *Ist Ds, Phil found Over-saturated default color setting. In the K10, he had changed his mind, and didn’t like the film-like neutral setting. Still on the Nikon D200, I believe it was, he adjusted the preset; to get better output. So don’t on the face of it, expect any Just evaluation.


IMO, the K100 got good reviews from DPr, as really it was not shaking the settings of the DSLR world. The K10 was more of a revolution, and sparking a good old firm back to the front pack. It was more dangerous for Phil to be raving about it. Taking heed of the K10, was more done behind closed doors at Canon strategy board meetings.


What I think is fun, is that Oly simply didn’t send Phil an E3. He had waited forever to review the E-510, so why bother doing him the favour of sending it express; if the package was only collecting dust in the front office.


Still in the end the consumers find out. Pentax was number 3 in Japanese market, even with the aggressive marketing of Sony and Oympus. The ice is broken with the K10, and interest will automatically accumulate regarding the K20 and upcoming products.

[benjikan]

I would love to ask Pentax to NOT send Uncle Phil the new camera...That would be masochistic in my opinion...

Ben

[lol101]

Don’t count on Phil seeing the potential with the K20, he doesn’t take the real life photos that Ben does. He’ll grab some shots of an old bottle and some crayons, enlarge them 113 %, and complain about how now he would like it to be more neutral, but that Pentax have made the output too vibrant, or something else.
.

What Phil will do is what Phil does each time:

Take a few shots in controlled conditions in default jpegs settings and various ISO and put them side by side at 100% magnification, with the occasional page on RAW that doesn't appear to count for much in the final verdict.

To me, it is almost useless but it's fairly easy to get a good "note". Just make your default jpeg setting reflect (or even enhance) the quality of your raw file and make them suitable for direct printing.

That means your default settings must be sharpened, contrasted, saturated and use a reasonable amount of NR.

Then, feel free to have as many other jpeg settings as you want since reviewers will almost never step away from default.

I don't know if the opinion of reviewers has any bearing on sales but if it has, I would definitely go for the bait as it costs nothing.

Otherwise, we'll see again the perfectly good IQ of the camera being trashed because of imaginary "jpeg defects".

If it matters to them, I sure hope Pentax will be clever this time around, especially if they base their strategy in having the best IQ of APS-C DSLRs...

[fishy]

I don't know if the opinion of reviewers has any bearing on sales ...

You betcha. When I was shopping around for a camera, I first visited all the reviewsites I could find. Then, of course, I went out and held all cameras that scored good. I decided I liked the feel of the K10D best, so I returned home to specifically search more reviews on it. Turned out most of them were copies and rewrites of the DPReview and a few others. So I checked a few newsgroups and fora as well.

Now, if a majority of them would have trashed the K10D I would have walked away with a D70 or so..

Later I found out that most of the people I met that where buying into a new system had a similar approach.

Of course the final verdict comes from playing and touching

Bottom line is that I feel many people will shortlist cameras they consider by reviews. Not being thrashed helps.

[lol101]

You betcha.

Bottom line is that I feel many people will shortlist cameras they consider by reviews. Not being thrashed helps.

My feeling too.

I guess we'll see if Pentax spare themselves some troubles by playing the game... or prefer the "lonesome cowboy" approach.... :ugh: