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01-24-2008, 01:31 AM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Get K10D until stock lasts. It's better camera than K200D. And cheaper.
I have to agree, if you want a great, proven camera and don't have tons of money to spend, get the K10D. In the next few weeks you will even see several used ones in the market place on this site, some of which will have been excellently cared for.

01-24-2008, 01:39 AM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Pentax engineers had two choices when updating the K10D in order to stay profitable. One was to advance the AF system and mechanisms to bring it up and beyond the current cameras in the class. Second was to advance the imaging and allow it to be the most advanced photographic tool available. Pentax went with upgrading the imaging guts because having a better AF system and the older imaging end wouldn’t sell well enough. Every camera on the block has a newer AF system, but the imaging system isn’t anything that stellar till you jump to the full frame models.
Well, I am the one who would choose the first option.

Stunning IQ is worth nothing when picture isn't taken because camera was not able to take picture at all in AF-S mode. Or face of my daughter is out of focus because AF-C was not able to keep-up with her.

I am more than happy with K10D image quality. I am much less than happy with it's AF system. I would definitely upgrade to K20D if Pentax would implement class leading AF system in it. Unchanged AF system of K20D is the show stopper for me... I will skip it with hope that K30D will get proper AF system.

Last edited by Edvinas; 01-24-2008 at 01:53 AM.
01-24-2008, 01:50 AM   #153
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Let's get it right on the body/chassis comparisons

QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Well the 40D and the D300 are both weather sealed And using also both a Magnesium body.
They also feel build tighter as the K10D And because the K20D is the same body(the basis) there is no difference.
Priyantha, well, the K10D and the new one both use a stainless steel chassis with a fiber-reinforced polycarbonate body covering it. So, it's really a magnesium vs. stainless steel chassis comparison between the Pentaxes and the Canikons (since all use polycarbonate bodies...IIRC)

Thanks so much for the introduction to the new camera, Chris! I just got my K10D and think I'll be happy with it for a while, but it's nice to see some engineering momentum out of Pentax once again!
01-24-2008, 01:51 AM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
I am much less than happy with it's AF system. I would definitely upgrade to K20D if Pentax would implement class leading AF system in it. Unchanged AF system of K20D is the show stopper for me...
Yeah, Oh well. So much for turning the industry upside down.

The K30D should solve that half of the issues (Predictive/low light AF, FPS settings between 20 & 3), though and it'll be a more complete camera.

Hopefully the K30D will not leave out the in-viewfinder live-view. That would've been a real unexpected innovation in the K20D especially with live-histogram, but I guess they didn't see any importance in it.

Did they even give us live histogram on the back LCD in the K20D?

Incredible how wrong (though desirable) the rumors were!

01-24-2008, 01:51 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
Interesting how the Canon XTi-2 specs compare to the K200D at that price point:
I can't imagine new DSLR buyer choosing Pentax K200D over Canon 450D when both cameras cost the same abount and 450D outspecs K200D...
K200D price is too optimistic, they will have to lower it at least to current Nikon D40x price. Otherwise this camera won't sell.
01-24-2008, 02:07 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Well I think, that the K20D is more a concurrent of the be introduced D90 and maybe also a bit the Canon 40D but the 40D is a camera in an other class.

The K10D were also not a 1-1 comparable with the 30D.
Canon's 30D and 40D have a magnesium body more rugged faster AF(even the 30D) much faster FPS(even the 30D, let's don't talk about the 40D).

The Nikon D300 isn't really a concurrent for the K20D, the D300 is a camera with a much more robust body, a much better AF system. The max shutter speed of course twice as much, and flash sync also much higher. FPS speed is also much higher even without the extra battery grip(which is more advanced as the K10D/K20D grip with more buttons more place for batteries), let alone with the extra battery grip.

So no...the K20D is not really a worry for 'Nikon and 'Canon sales of their D300 and 40D.

But the K20D will be a success story for Pentax, I hope so. Not everybody needs a better AF system and more FPS and a more robust body and a higher flash sync speed
Many of the shooters just need LOW noise on high ISO's and a very good IQ But we don't know if that's the case without full size RAW files
Agree... it could be a greater camera had they improve the AF performance...
01-24-2008, 02:12 AM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Well, I am the one who would choose the first option.

Stunning IQ is worth nothing when picture isn't taken because camera was not able to take picture at all in AF-S mode. Or face of my daughter is out of focus because AF-C was not able to keep-up with her.

I am more than happy with K10D image quality. I am much less than happy with it's AF system. I would definitely upgrade to K20D if Pentax would implement class leading AF system in it. Unchanged AF system of K20D is the show stopper for me... I will skip it with hope that K30D will get proper AF system.
Cant agree more with you on that one.

A great picture is a great picture if you are able to shoot one, thanks to the AF ive lost many shots becoz the camera was so busy tuning focus. Pls dont tell me to pre-focus, thats why AF was developed, otherwise might as well stick to MF all the way.
01-24-2008, 02:24 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by darthkir Quote
Cant agree more with you on that one.

A great picture is a great picture if you are able to shoot one, thanks to the AF ive lost many shots becoz the camera was so busy tuning focus. Pls dont tell me to pre-focus, thats why AF was developed, otherwise might as well stick to MF all the way.
You might be surprised by the way the K20D behaves in AF-C mode. From what I understand, you can choose to bypass the double AF confirmation. This means that the camera will take a pic when it gets the first focus lock, so it will not recheck the focus after that. This is exactly how the AF from i.e. Canon behaves. So please wait for the first reviews before you jump to early conclusions!

01-24-2008, 02:36 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Ben Kanarek, Canonís fashion photographer of the year 2006, has even exclaimed that the image quality is rivaling that of Hasselblads, which is a very bold statement, but with a lot of images backing his statement itís hard to deny.
I can't really believe that... maybe, for small/medium-sized prints.
Come on, it's not a "bomb", the burst mode is useless, the AF from what I understand will still be behind the competition... I mean, (probably) I'll be very happy with this camera, but it doesn't seems as impressive as you're saying.
Right now I feel somewhat dissatisfied, and only because of the hype. Too bad, because I actually like many of the new things on this camera, and the IQ appears to be much better. What can I say... thanks, folks! Next time, I don't want to hear "you know, the next Pentax camera, it'll be great ".
01-24-2008, 03:00 AM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
I can't imagine new DSLR buyer choosing Pentax K200D over Canon 450D when both cameras cost the same abount and 450D outspecs K200D...
K200D price is too optimistic, they will have to lower it at least to current Nikon D40x price. Otherwise this camera won't sell.
Yes, it is just like the introduction of the K10D, that camera was places higher but Canikon did a better job for less. So Pentax had to lower their price(so their proffits).

The same thing is happening again with the K20D.

Even the new Canon 450D has a higher fps count and I bet a better AF system(it looks like the same system as used in the 40D).
Sensor performance is unknown yet, but I can't imagine that it is bad, Canon has a good reputation in that respect
01-24-2008, 03:03 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
I can't imagine new DSLR buyer choosing Pentax K200D over Canon 450D when both cameras cost the same abount and 450D outspecs K200D...
K200D price is too optimistic, they will have to lower it at least to current Nikon D40x price. Otherwise this camera won't sell.
It would sell better at the D40x price, but the K200 does have some specs over these other cameras. The K200 is weather sealed, has Dust Alert and in camera shake reduction. All of which will be selling points to a lot of customers.
01-24-2008, 03:13 AM   #162
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Whiners took over! I better go to take some pictures
01-24-2008, 03:41 AM   #163
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Not for the masses

QuoteOriginally posted by cajuncutter Quote
Yeah if it had been in the 999 range it may have been doable. I just don't see how they will compete against the 2 big ones unless they get in the big box stores and have sales people pushing them. I am sold on Pentax i just think it will be hard for Pentax to sale themselves to the masses. Too many brand loyal people out there, well I should not even call them that they are like sheep...they just follow.
I don't think that the K20D is intended to be a camera for the masses, but then neither is the Nikon D300 or the Canon 5D. In their own press release, Pentax say that the K20D is designed "to meet the specialized and exacting demands of photo enthusiasts, including advanced amateurs." Interestingly, they make no mention of professionals. Is that because of the so-so autofocus, the lack of a full line of pro oriented lenses, etc? If the IQ is truly outstanding, I would think that many pros might find this camera attractive at a price significantly below that of the competition.

Rob
01-24-2008, 03:42 AM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
The thing I am most disappointed about in the K20D announcement is that there is no mention of any improvement in the flash system. Sync speed remains 1/180th sec, which is simply too slow. And it looks like the K20D either doesn't improve on P-TTL and won't support plain ol' TTL. I can live with this, but I continue to think that the biggest weakness of the Pentax system is P-TTL.

Will
All you need to do is buy a new Metz PTTL compatible flashgun and you will get very reliable PTTL performance. Strange but true
01-24-2008, 03:45 AM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gio645 Quote
Whiners took over! I better go to take some pictures
Mmm it is just what you mean with whiners
I just think some critical Pentax users.
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