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01-24-2008, 03:58 AM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gio645 Quote
Whiners took over! I better go to take some pictures
umm... Whiners?? maybe people are just a little dissapointed that most of what everyone has said are the limitations of the k10d are left totally untouched and what a lot of people have been requesting for quite some time has been totally ignored. Remember there was a lot of hype including stories of laser assisted af etc etc everyones dreams were going to come true. But it is a k10 upgrade targeted at certain groups and specific needs where it looks to provide good to great value and features but it doesn't provide for other people needs and so after the hype they aren't real happy.

Personally it will do what I want it to do, its other things I have issues with, and hopefully soon we will start to see some decent pics coming from it that we all say oh wow! and using some of the new features so we can really see their value

Phil

edit: just saw the german pentax pics (thanks to anolife)

HERE

certainly some detail there


Last edited by philmorley; 01-24-2008 at 04:14 AM.
01-24-2008, 04:02 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by HermanLee Quote
World will be a much better place if people are content with what they have and try to reach perfection through imperfection..that's what I call a true success!
Agreed, but if people were content with what they have already, not much progress will be made, since people would ideally be happy with a basic camera that can take pictures, no matter the resolution, no matter the quality.
01-24-2008, 04:47 AM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
It's not the fact that it's 14MP, but the actual IQ. A lot of cameras have bigger sensors, but do they take a better picture? A lot of people think the K100D sensor has a better look than the K10D, there is no difference in IQ from a Canon 20D-30D-40D besides the 40D is a little nosier; what about the Nikon D40-D80-D200, they all look very similar. The K20D blows the IQ levels off the charts compared to what they previously had IMO.
I completely agree that IQ trumps any and all other features, but I will await careful testing to see if it really is as good as you say. For my own purposes, the AF on the K10D is more than adequate, and I have no need whatsoever for continuous shooting or live view. Hence, I don't care that these features may be somewhat limited compared to competing cameras, and I suspect that there are many other photographers who feel the same.

Some people seem disappointed that the K20D is not more "revolutionary." But, really, if you look back through history, how many cameras have been truly revolutionary? Very few, I would say, meaning that the vast majority of cameras are, and always have been, evolutionary in nature. So, please, folks, be reasonable in your expectations. If you simply cannot live without certain features that are lacking in the K20D, then by all means explore your options with other brands. But don't be so quick to knock Pentax for producing a camera that is merely excellent.

Rob
01-24-2008, 04:50 AM   #169
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The IQ of this camera is REALLY a "bomb"! No other camera can produce something like that. Well, except for D3 and 1D Mk III, which cost... well, you all know lol.

I hope that Pentax will sell ALOT of these cameras, as will Samsung, to make KAF2 mount a widely used standart, and, or course, to get lots of money so they'd not choose between new AF and new imaging next time.

20 saved presets for AF adjustments is also a great touch! Just like 1D Mk III has! Personally I have no fron/back focus problems, but such a feature is great to have anyway!

So I guess I know what camera I'll have in autumn 2008

01-24-2008, 04:51 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Mmm it is just what you mean with whiners
I just think some critical Pentax users.
I stand on my statement! I better go to take some pictures
Those pentax users you mention (you included) are criticizing Pentax at every turn. This is not criticism. It is pure whining!
01-24-2008, 05:18 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gio645 Quote
Those pentax users you mention (you included) are criticizing Pentax at every turn. This is not criticism. It is pure whining!
I will speak only for my self here
But I am not criticizing Pentax at every turn I am a happy Pentax film user
Yes their dSLR's aren't on par with the big two names yet, but are very close on most aspects an even on some the Pentax dSLR's are even better(weather sealing on low-end bodies, SR on all bodies, nice VF), but on other features the Pentax dSLR's are lacking some unfortunately.

Unfortunately is the 'Pentax System' not yet really compete either There are no P-TTL macro ringflashes, the normale flashes are not on par with the C and N offerings.
And lets not talk about the big gaps in the lens line-up

But I am not complaining about the 'System' because I would use if I buy a new Pentax dSLR(I have owned a K10D) just only with a short wide end zoom like a 16-50 2.8 and a lens like a 70-200 2.8(but there is no.... ) and maybe a ultra wide zoom like a 12-24 than I am ready
Maybe some primes off course a 50mm AF and maybe a the 77ltd or something
I don't need a ringflash for my photo's But I do need a decent flashgun I am using right now my AF 540 FGZ, which is not exactly bad

Well I am enthusiastic that Pentax is introducing new products, that means Pentax is still alive and kicking and that is good

I am now just hoping for a Pentax dSLR above the K20D, a dSLR which can compete with the D300 and the 40D
Maybe even also a top dSLR model from Pentax which can compete with the Nikon D3 and Canon 1-series ?
01-24-2008, 05:51 AM   #172
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Hmmmm...

Whining?

We were led to believe (and many of us took hook, line and sinker) that the K20 would be a revolutionary camera that would scare the crap out of Canon and Nikon due to its innovative features.

Those photographers that do not restrict themselves to studio work and landscapes justifiably thought this meant that Pentax would FINALLY be addressing their major shortfalls. We ALL know what those were and still are.

Silly us.

Instead, Pentax has chosen to add some "features" no-one asked for (because no-one could dream of a dust locator system or the gimmicky 20FPS burst and so on).

As someone else has also stated, good IQ only matters if you actually make the shot.

Pentax calls the K20 an advanced amateur camera and that is just what it is.

Is it not understandable that many, including some like me with a long history with Pentax (30+ years) are left shaking our heads in disbelief?
01-24-2008, 06:07 AM   #173
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For all those that are dissapointed, it sounds like they wanted the features of a D3 at a K10D price. But I think the features and quality of the K20D will win more converts (the K10D won me over the POS Canon 40D) and next year will bring the next evolution. I already placed my order.

01-24-2008, 06:35 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Letís just say 20 frames per second! Itís only at 1.6MP
Is this scalable? say 5fps at 6.4 mp?
01-24-2008, 06:38 AM   #175
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Scalable?

Apparently not. If it was it would have been useful.
01-24-2008, 06:48 AM   #176
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So after all the noise of the last weeks. We have a new sensor (lets wait until true non-processed high Iso images appears), crappy view and something similar to a crappy video mode (20 fps at 1.6 Mb for 115 frames) that every low-level point and shoot can outperform. All implemented in the backbone of an excellent camera. It makes an excellent camera at a similar price of other excellent (maybe better) cameras with more flexible systems (more flash flexibility, brand and third party lenses, sport-birder performance...). I think that this camera rates short from the Olympus E-3 which should be the real compentence. Now, if the IQ of the K20D is really excellent I will eat every single word that I am saying (though something is telling me that all this high ISO performance is going to be a little bit polemical).
01-24-2008, 06:51 AM   #177
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I think the K20D proves to be a great camera with lots of features that are very practical in a real world situation. Dust Alert or Pixel Mapping to mention a few. Those make keeping your camera in shape a much easier task when you cannot run to a service point for a quick clean-up/maintenance... Sth essential for Pentax... The improved IQ is also a great thing, as basically that is the ONLY thing you will notice at the end of the photography chain, i.e. the printing or the publishing...

Now, of course some of our members under NDA got carried away a bit, probably mostly because they realised the practical potential of the K20D and looked further than performance from the narrow-minded time-dimensional point-of-view (yes yes the fps and the AF speed), and perhaps also less because of a commercial interest being sponsored. However I'm sure there are other more lucrative brands to be sponsored by... You need to form an impression of the poster before you can correctly interpret their posts, that goes for all posts on this forum (probably mine included )...

Anyway, a great piece of writing by Chris, revealing some elements I hadn't figured out from other reviews/presentations. I'm upgrading from my K10D!!

Wim
01-24-2008, 06:57 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gruoso Quote
So after all the noise of the last weeks. We have a new sensor (lets wait until true non-processed high Iso images appears), crappy view and something similar to a crappy video mode (20 fps at 1.6 Mb for 115 frames) that every low-level point and shoot can outperform.
In that last thing you are being wrong. There is being an different between movie and photo shots. If you look to a single shot of a movie then it is mostly like a photo that is moved. Like a photo with a too long shuttertime. You see that good on movies with much moving objects on it, like on a party.
The K20D just makes photos and then 21 low-size in a second. That is not bad.
01-24-2008, 06:58 AM   #179
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At first, I was kind of dissapointed with the AF and FPS specs.

I think most of the people, including me, are missing some important point:
Pentax is able to make its own SENSOR. And not just some small stupid sensor. Apearently, it is a state of the art technology and it is at least head to head with the big twos latest sensors.

This means much more than a 20FPS at 14MP or 51 point AF. If you do not have a competitive sensor, those other specs mean nothing.
You know, the the biggest competitor of sony is pentax now. Sony does not care about nikon or canon for the time being. So, if I was the sony ceo and if was not obliged legally, I would never give the A700 or D300 sensor to pentax/samsung. So, then what? Simpe: Your limiteds would be nice door stoppers.

So, from now on, nobody can claim that Pentax is going out of business. Appearently, Pentax, Hoya, Samsung trio is doing somethings right.

I am sure (I least I hope ) now the pentax enginers are working on the new AF engine
01-24-2008, 07:04 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbmiller Quote
For all those that are dissapointed, it sounds like they wanted the features of a D3 at a K10D price. But I think the features and quality of the K20D will win more converts (the K10D won me over the POS Canon 40D) and next year will bring the next evolution. I already placed my order.
I think its absolutely daft to think that us critics of the new camera were expecting D3 esque features. Full frame, ISO 25,600 nor 11 fps were never the anticipation; not at least from my perspective. The hype surrounding by those who were in NDA lead us to beleive that this was a more comprehensive package addressing other issues beyond IQ. The IQ from what I've seen is bloody fantastic but the question remains how often will one be able to acheive such results? Unless conditions are perfect (which they rarely are) how will one acheive consistent, great IQ when shooting a band at a night club? A wedding? Sports? That beautiful sensor is still using K10D AF, K10D Sync Speed, K10 FPS (short of that 21 fps gimmick), K10 P-TTL Hardware. I was personally happy with K10D IQ, I really wanted the rest of the camera to be upgraded and therefore that is the source of my discontent. I think Pentax users have ended up with the equivilent of a 1970's Italian supercar in the K20D. Vexing but once everything works right it'll probably blow you away.

I still want one.
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