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01-24-2008, 07:04 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbmiller Quote
For all those that are dissapointed, it sounds like they wanted the features of a D3 at a K10D price. But I think the features and quality of the K20D will win more converts (the K10D won me over the POS Canon 40D) and next year will bring the next evolution. I already placed my order.
Well I didn't
I just hoped for a real D300 contender in the SAME price league
Maybe a little bit less but not by much.
Why should Pentax price their bodies less than the Big two if they are really comparable ? No reason for that But at this moment their is a reason because they aren't completly comparable.

A higher-end body like a D3/1-Series priced like the same as the big two is also not really a big problem in my thoughts When I want a dSLR I am just going to save money to buy one
And if the dSLR of my 'dreams' is a bit to expensive I will save money for a bit longer time.
And professionals who use their equipment for professional use, they do the same but a bit different

01-24-2008, 07:08 AM   #182
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Great summary Chris. I won't be jumping just yet as my money is going into lenses this year (after 2 bodies last year), but next january, one of these babys will be in my bag.

p.s. 13 pages and not a peep from Ricehigh.... How nice!
01-24-2008, 07:11 AM   #183
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I agree, it sounds like a very good camera indeed. And offcourse this is an evolutionary step and not just and upgrade. Infact I see much more of an evolution here that in similar updates like D200->D300, 30D->40D...

Further more, look at the time interval between new cameras. It seems to me that the K10D/K20D interval is shorter than the D200/D300 interval. (I might be wrong here, but it seems to me that all the nagging about waiting time from alot of forum users has no basis in reality...)


As a photographer I have to say that this indeed looks like a very very good camera.

It has all the stuff that I missed in K10D, sync connector, lens focus adjustment, LCD calibration, dust-recognizer (yes I've thought of that being in handy), better DR, more resolution, improveved RAW-convertion with .tiff saving, time interval automatic shooting...


There is only one BIG dissapointment in this release, but it has nothing to do with the K10D. It is the 645D that still has not been announced, although I still have my hopes up. If anybody knows anything NEW about it now is the time to share. And please no comments about it being put on hold, as we have no official information about that yet.
01-24-2008, 07:28 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
Apparently not. If it was it would have been useful.
No, it wouldn't be useful.

Pentax did not implement contrast detection autofocus and this burst mode will be without focussing. So, you'll get first picture in focus and the rest of pictures will be out of focus.

Also while mirror will be up, you won't be able to track object looking through viewfinder. I don't know if they switch on LiveView during that burst mode.

It will work on static objects however who needs continuous shooting on static objects?

01-24-2008, 07:28 AM   #185
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I must say that I wasnt expecting nothing ultraspecial from Pentax for the same reason that Ishipuini exposed....I dont trust opinions on a product from people under Pentax umbrella. I wont change my camera until it dies (from natural causes of course) and I am not really astonished/dissapointed with the new cameras (thought I like the x-synch connector idea). Anyway, good luck for those buying the first models I really respect their service to the cause as guinea pigs.
01-24-2008, 07:30 AM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
What's the default JPEG setting? Natural/bland, so reviewers can quickly dismiss the camera, and go on to the amazing Canon 7D at 3x the price?
The default is Bright and they better play with the settings or else they suck as a reviewer

QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
Interesting how the Canon XTi-2 specs compare to the K200D at that price point:

* 12.2 megapixel CMOS sensor
* SD/SDHC cards
* Larger viewfinder
* Live view mode, including contrast-detect AF
* Improved 9-point AF system
* Spot metering
* 3.0" LCD monitor
* Redesigned menus (including My Menu as seen in 40D)
* Slightly redesigned info display
* Continuous shooting at 3.5fps for up to 53 JPEG (6 RAW)
* ISO setting displays in viewfinder and ISO button
* New, larger, higher capacity battery
* 14 bit A/D converter and processing
* Multi-shot self-timer mode
* Highlight Tone Priority (from 40D)
* Auto Lighting Optimiser (boosts shadows after shooting)
Whats funny is how it's more innovative than the Canon 40D.... weird

I think the K200D will suffer big time against this camera IMO.
01-24-2008, 07:36 AM   #187
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very definitive review chris....thanks for all the input, not to mention your time to write it for us......hmmmm, will my new lens plans go on back shelf for this body ??
01-24-2008, 07:51 AM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by TFTM Quote
I think its absolutely daft to think that us critics of the new camera were expecting D3 esque features. Full frame, ISO 25,600 nor 11 fps were never the anticipation; not at least from my perspective. The hype surrounding by those who were in NDA lead us to beleive that this was a more comprehensive package addressing other issues beyond IQ. The IQ from what I've seen is bloody fantastic but the question remains how often will one be able to acheive such results? Unless conditions are perfect (which they rarely are) how will one acheive consistent, great IQ when shooting a band at a night club? A wedding? Sports? That beautiful sensor is still using K10D AF, K10D Sync Speed, K10 FPS (short of that 21 fps gimmick), K10 P-TTL Hardware. I was personally happy with K10D IQ, I really wanted the rest of the camera to be upgraded and therefore that is the source of my discontent. I think Pentax users have ended up with the equivilent of a 1970's Italian supercar in the K20D. Vexing but once everything works right it'll probably blow you away.

I still want one.
You're right! I just get tired of hearing that EVERYBODY didn't get EVERYTHING they wanted. I guess that's my whine. The naysayers thought 14MP was impossible on the same sensor size. Before seeing anything, they said it would be crap. But they couldn't envision new technology. C & N have had supposedly better focusing systems for years. If that is what is important to someone as a photographer, go for it. If higher fps is important, go for it. Many Nikon shooters switched to Fuji for their wedding and portraiture work because they like the skin tones and higher dynamic range. Ebay makes switching so much easier because you have an instant market for your used equipment. Each type of photography has different requirements by their users and I don't think there is a single camera that does everything that everyone wants at a price they can pay. In the old days, there were bodies, lenses, and film. Pentax is playing a catch-up game right now. They got a good body (not great yet), very good lenses with more to come, and excellent film (sensor) now. If Pentax really wants to make a showing in the market, they should come out with a couple more bodies to have a complete lineup (pro, semi, advanced, entry). But, there I go, telling them how to run their business.

01-24-2008, 07:54 AM   #189
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The infrared shooting feature looks interesting.

What is it like? Does it still require long exposures as with a hard infrared filter?
01-24-2008, 07:58 AM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marcus Quote
The infrared shooting feature looks interesting.

What is it like? Does it still require long exposures as with a hard infrared filter?
No you can handhold it actually LOL! It's a software thing, but looks really really close.
01-24-2008, 08:04 AM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
No you can handhold it actually LOL! It's a software thing, but looks really really close.
So it's B&W mode with the colors inverted? Because that looks close to infrared and is real easy to implement. Even MS Paint does that.

Chris, again. Thanks for your time on this. Can you link me to some individual landscape images? Thanks.
01-24-2008, 08:13 AM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Stunning IQ is worth nothing when picture isn't taken because camera was not able to take picture at all in AF-S mode. Or face of my daughter is out of focus because AF-C was not able to keep-up with her.

I am more than happy with K10D image quality. I am much less than happy with it's AF system. I would definitely upgrade to K20D if Pentax would implement class leading AF system in it. Unchanged AF system of K20D is the show stopper for me... I will skip it with hope that K30D will get proper AF system.
Have you noticed the "catch in focus" option on K20D/K200D menu?

It looks like a way to disable "second check" from the AF and allow for faster shooting and might be an answer to your (in fact "our") problems in AF-C.

The Af in itself does keep up, except in very low light, but often, the pic is not taken because of the AF re-check.

In due time, we'll know for sure if this is trading accuracy for speed or if it is a way to get a higher percentage of good in focus pics.

Have you seen the bicycle race pics on the brochure? If it was done in AF-C and from a stable point (ie not from a motorbike running at the same speed), it looks pretty good (one of the pics is available full size from one site, can't remember which one...
01-24-2008, 08:17 AM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
No, it wouldn't be useful.

Pentax did not implement contrast detection autofocus and this burst mode will be without focussing. So, you'll get first picture in focus and the rest of pictures will be out of focus.

Also while mirror will be up, you won't be able to track object looking through viewfinder. I don't know if they switch on LiveView during that burst mode.

It will work on static objects however who needs continuous shooting on static objects?
Thanks for this info. Edvinas. I hadn't thought of that.
01-24-2008, 08:18 AM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Have you seen the bicycle race pics on the brochure? If it was done in AF-C and from a stable point (ie not from a motorbike running at the same speed), it looks pretty good (one of the pics is available full size from one site, can't remember which one...
That photo WAS standing on the German Pentax website, but sadly they did remove the photos.
01-24-2008, 08:28 AM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Pentax K20D

So we still have 3FPS and we will still have the same low-light AF ability coupled with the same 11 AF points with 9 of those being selectable.

What has changed in the camera? Way too much for me to ever remember hence why I wrote this article ahead of time so I could make sure I have all the bases covered when the camera is announced.

The sensor… this sensor is most likely the most technologically advanced sensor on the market period. This is the very first high resolution sensor and actually breaks the quality of many lenses on the market. 14.7 effective megapixels… that sounds almost ludicrous! Many of you are probably thinking well small pixels right? WRONG! The pixels are actually the same size as the pixels on the Sony 12MP sensor that is in the Sony A700 and the Nikon D300! Now you’re all thinking that I’m nuts because there is no way Pentax has this sensor technology because nobody else has it. Sorry guys they do have this technology because they patented it and Samsung built it. We now have a high resolving sensor with high sensitivity! Somewhere a rep told me that each pixel has a base ISO1600 sensitivity, but this could be different or an interpretation. It’s basically magic like Ken Rockwell always says when he doesn’t want to understand how something works. Not only does this sensor have great sensitivity per pixel, but is self repairing! With a couple of button presses you can fix dead pixels on your sensor while you wait. Huh? You know those dead pixels that happen from time to time. Basically you’d send your camera in to be repaired and they’d send it back with that dead pixel mapped out of the equation. The K20D can do this for you in camera folks! So let’s sum this up… a 14.7MP, high resolution sensor, low noise, and self healing!

Estimated US price is $1299 body only and $1399 with the new DA 18-55 II. All previous K10D accessories will work on the K20D including grip, focusing screens, etc.

*DISCLAIMER* All of these statements are my own and it stems from a prototype camera that lacked full functionality and a finalized firmware. Things can change drastically when the final product hits the market. If for any reason you have handled a camera of newer firmware and setting have changed please inform me so I can make appropriate changes. Under no circumstance may anyone reproduce any of this, but can link this physical thread as much as you like. So you better have my permission before you try and copy and past this onto your own website.*END DISCLAIMER*
I think Pentax made a mistake by not improving frame rate and AF. Nikon improved both when it brought out the D300. Now Pentax is even further behind in this regard versus the competition.

The decision to make a 14mp is a marketing one. Basically, the marketing department decided that a 14mp camera will be more attractive to consumers, who mostly shop on the basis of megapixel count and price. Pentax marketing appears to believe that it can charge much more money by maximizing megapixel count. This is basically the same camera as the K10D in terms of frame rate and durability, but it is introduced at a price that is much higher than that of its predecessor primarily because of megapixel count. The $1299 price is simply too high, in spite of the 14mp resolution, since Canon has just released a 12mp 450D that can do 3.5fps at $799. Is the extra 2mp worth $500? To many end users I doubt that it does.

I wish Samsung had applied its patented technology to maximize pixel size instead of pixel count. A more modest 12mp with larger individual pixels than those on the Sony A700 and Nikon D300 would have been a better alternative than 14mp.

Nevertheless, it is good news to see that Samsung has graduated to the APS-C size sensor class. The future hopefully will bring more and bigger sensors. After all, it could get ugly if the K30D has an 18-20 megapixel APS-C sensor and it shoots only 3fps. A 14-16mp full frame DSLR that can shoot 5fps should be Pentax's next goal. Perhaps Samsung can even make some medium format CMOS sensors for the Pentax 645D.
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