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01-24-2008, 10:22 AM   #211
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Amazing reponses

I am amazed at the attitude of some people. Totally glass half empty and probably never satisfied with anything.

If they upped the AF and FPS you would have complained about the sensor size and that fact there was no PC connector.

Have a good hard look at your photographic portfolio and see what sort of imagery you actually shoot and see if more than 3fps is really really important. If it is, then you have the wrong camera system.

...Hasselblad...sorry did I hear "Awesome", "the pinnacle if imagery"...surely they are renown for their massive FPS and super fast AF system....NOT!
CF-22, ISO - 50-400, what not 6400. 2 sec write time per image, what not 10fps? 2.2inch LCD screen..what not 3inch? Longest Shutter speed 32 secs, what no Bulb Setting???

Pentax has decided to make a camera that makes awesome images, not lots of average ones. That is like the philosophy of their AF system, DOUBLE check focus before releasing the shutter.

Look at the PPG and tell me it is full of action and sports imagery or is it full of rich, dynamic, amazing and colourful images taken by people on these forums using the current models.

I think some of you forget where we have come from and forget about the days of manual focus and manual film winding. Try sticking to a MF lens and single exposures for a day and revisit the TRUE joy of photography.

I for one love the new features, I am really looking forward to seeing some direct comparisons between the K10D and the K20D. I have some lenses that are sharp but I believe will benefit from a little BF/FF fine tuning. No dust and no hot pixels.

Lastly, the K10D uses the same AF system as the *ist series yet it is faster. This new camera uses a different power consumption allowing over 700 images on ONE battery, lets wait and see if the OLD AF system doesn't actually perform faster.

Lets wait until we actually get one in our own hands before we decide if it is what we want or not, rather than slam it sight unseen.

I have pre-ordered mine already. I believe PENTAX has got another winner here too. Did you notice the default setting appears to be Bright mode? That will make Phil Askey look harder to find something else to complain about.

I am happy with my K10D and this just gives me more resolution and I think I will find a few uses for BURST mode. Actually I think I will find a use for every feature, including the HDR.

I also believe like when the K10D came out WITHOUT wireless mode, that there maybe the odd firmware update to tweak some of these new features.

01-24-2008, 10:33 AM   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peacekeeper Quote
...

I think some of you forget where we have come from and forget about the days of manual focus and manual film winding. Try sticking to a MF lens and single exposures for a day and revisit the TRUE joy of photography.
My point exactly!
01-24-2008, 10:44 AM   #213
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I do think it is unfortunate that Pentax does not offer a sports model the way Canon does. However, that is not their target market is it? Pentax fills a niche market and I think this K20 is a fantastic camera for that market. I've already placed my order.
01-24-2008, 11:04 AM   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by davemdsn Quote
I do think it is unfortunate that Pentax does not offer a sports model the way Canon does. However, that is not their target market is it? Pentax fills a niche market and I think this K20 is a fantastic camera for that market. I've already placed my order.
I am the target market. I have been a medium format (Mamiya) film shooter for almost 40 years, that bought a K10D as my first dslr. I think Pentax recognizes that they have developed a reputation among film shooters for image quality, and has gone with that. They couldn't put everything that everyone wanted in a $1300 body, so they considered their market and went with a new sensor that they feel with come up with superior images than the competition in this price range. The people worried about frame rates and focus speed are at the wrong forum- those stupid looking white lenses are not here.
I am looking forward to the images that this camera produces to determine if I will get one. The rest are just incidentals. The black and white and infrared functions also interest me, as well as the pc sync with voltage buffer. I can't believe that people are complaining about sync speed, just a few years ago 1/60th was about as fast as you got. And your poor lens won't focus in low light, there's a little lever you can pull on the left and presto - manual focus, or you could even pre focus ahead of time like a photographer. The distance scale on your lens has a reason it exists.

01-24-2008, 11:10 AM   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
You don't need to be sport shooter to feel limitations of current Pentax AF system. It's enough to have toddler. He/she will not freeze when you want to take picture.
I did mention wildlife photographers too. I guess you fall into this category.

With all seriousness however, I have some wonderfull rafting shots taken with my - now dead - Nikon F3, with no autofocus at all. I guess nothing beats shooting smart.
However I do agree that Pentax AF suffers in low light - thank God the viewfinder is clean and bright, so all I do is switch to manual. Greek orthodox churches are so so dark...
01-24-2008, 11:13 AM   #216
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What is US availability? I need it in my hands prior to May 1st..
01-24-2008, 11:20 AM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peacekeeper Quote
I am amazed at the attitude of some people. Totally glass half empty and probably never satisfied with anything.

If they upped the AF and FPS you would have complained about the sensor size and that fact there was no PC connector.

Have a good hard look at your photographic portfolio and see what sort of imagery you actually shoot and see if more than 3fps is really really important. If it is, then you have the wrong camera system.

...Hasselblad...sorry did I hear "Awesome", "the pinnacle if imagery"...surely they are renown for their massive FPS and super fast AF system....NOT!
CF-22, ISO - 50-400, what not 6400. 2 sec write time per image, what not 10fps? 2.2inch LCD screen..what not 3inch? Longest Shutter speed 32 secs, what no Bulb Setting???

Pentax has decided to make a camera that makes awesome images, not lots of average ones. That is like the philosophy of their AF system, DOUBLE check focus before releasing the shutter.

Look at the PPG and tell me it is full of action and sports imagery or is it full of rich, dynamic, amazing and colourful images taken by people on these forums using the current models.

I think some of you forget where we have come from and forget about the days of manual focus and manual film winding. Try sticking to a MF lens and single exposures for a day and revisit the TRUE joy of photography.

I for one love the new features, I am really looking forward to seeing some direct comparisons between the K10D and the K20D. I have some lenses that are sharp but I believe will benefit from a little BF/FF fine tuning. No dust and no hot pixels.

Lastly, the K10D uses the same AF system as the *ist series yet it is faster. This new camera uses a different power consumption allowing over 700 images on ONE battery, lets wait and see if the OLD AF system doesn't actually perform faster.

Lets wait until we actually get one in our own hands before we decide if it is what we want or not, rather than slam it sight unseen.

I have pre-ordered mine already. I believe PENTAX has got another winner here too. Did you notice the default setting appears to be Bright mode? That will make Phil Askey look harder to find something else to complain about.

I am happy with my K10D and this just gives me more resolution and I think I will find a few uses for BURST mode. Actually I think I will find a use for every feature, including the HDR.

I also believe like when the K10D came out WITHOUT wireless mode, that there maybe the odd firmware update to tweak some of these new features.
I'm sorry mate but I totally disagree with your philosophy; comparing Pentax to a specialized Hasselblad. Inferring that it will always been useful for only certain kinds of photography. I also think you forget how long ago the MF days really were. This is not 1978 or 1984, AF has been around for 20 plus years. If I'm going to shell out several hundered if not thousands of dollars, for a brand new camera system I want my AF to be there right quick and in all conditions. I expect it to be a sublime process of the camera. Not some involved focus, check, recompose, take the picture sort of deal.
01-24-2008, 11:28 AM   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by cygnet Quote
I am the target market. I have been a medium format (Mamiya) film shooter for almost 40 years, that bought a K10D as my first dslr. I think Pentax recognizes that they have developed a reputation among film shooters for image quality, and has gone with that. They couldn't put everything that everyone wanted in a $1300 body, so they considered their market and went with a new sensor that they feel with come up with superior images than the competition in this price range. The people worried about frame rates and focus speed are at the wrong forum- those stupid looking white lenses are not here.
I am looking forward to the images that this camera produces to determine if I will get one. The rest are just incidentals. The black and white and infrared functions also interest me, as well as the pc sync with voltage buffer. I can't believe that people are complaining about sync speed, just a few years ago 1/60th was about as fast as you got. And your poor lens won't focus in low light, there's a little lever you can pull on the left and presto - manual focus, or you could even pre focus ahead of time like a photographer. The distance scale on your lens has a reason it exists.
If Pentax built a camera from 1986 with a sync speed of 1/100 of a second. Tell me how hard it could have been in 22 years to seriously increase that figure beyond 1/180 of a second like other manufacturers have done. Besides, the K20 can move that shutter 21 FRAMES per second in the 1.6 MP mode. With that kind of frame rate they could have raised the sync speed.

01-24-2008, 11:32 AM   #219
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^ Now that you mention it, what is the sync speed?

Is it still 1/180?
01-24-2008, 11:35 AM   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I can't really believe that... maybe, for small/medium-sized prints.
Come on, it's not a "bomb", the burst mode is useless, the AF from what I understand will still be behind the competition... I mean, (probably) I'll be very happy with this camera, but it doesn't seems as impressive as you're saying.
Right now I feel somewhat dissatisfied, and only because of the hype. Too bad, because I actually like many of the new things on this camera, and the IQ appears to be much better. What can I say... thanks, folks! Next time, I don't want to hear "you know, the next Pentax camera, it'll be great ".
Actually, I could see the K20D approaching a Hassy H-Series body for IQ. The 1DsmII certainly did with only 2MP more. And 16MP backs have been de rigeur for much MF shooting for a while. It's not going to touch an H3D-39 of course, or a 501CM shooting Tech Pan, but matching a 645 shooting C-41 film in IQ is certainly doable at 14.6MP.
01-24-2008, 11:43 AM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by TFTM Quote
I'm sorry mate but I totally disagree with your philosophy; comparing Pentax to a specialized Hasselblad. Inferring that it will always been useful for only certain kinds of photography. I also think you forget how long ago the MF days really were. This is not 1978 or 1984, AF has been around for 20 plus years. If I'm going to shell out several hundered if not thousands of dollars, for a brand new camera system I want my AF to be there right quick and in all conditions. I expect it to be a sublime process of the camera. Not some involved focus, check, recompose, take the picture sort of deal.
You do realize that he's comparing it to the current Hasselblad H3D body, an AF 645-format DSLR.

Note the K10D absolutely stomps the H-series for AF performance.
01-24-2008, 11:59 AM   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Pentax engineers had two choices when updating the K10D in order to stay profitable. One was to advance the AF system and mechanisms to bring it up and beyond the current cameras in the class. Second was to advance the imaging and allow it to be the most advanced photographic tool available.

That, in a nutshell, is what Pentax's philosophy has always been. Image quality first....bells and whistles second. This philosophy extends to their lens lines, too, where they concentrate on building the best "common" lenses they can (as in the Limited series) at the expense of more exotic lenses. This is just who Pentax is and it looks like it's who they intend to continue to be.
01-24-2008, 12:06 PM   #223
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IQ at ISO1600


100% crop


That my friedns is innovation!
01-24-2008, 12:10 PM   #224
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My point was....That ...

It is possible to create an awesome camera (i.e. Hasselblad) without anything other than great image quality. No high FPS or super fast AF.

Porsche and Hummer are examples of fine motor vehicles...Can't be compared side by side and don't take your Porsche off road.

Lastly, with all the bells and whistles we do have on our cameras, we start to forget it is a camera and there is a certain joy in taking an image, not just pointing the camera and it does everything else.

Enjoy photography
01-24-2008, 12:22 PM   #225
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Well Codiac, that's a easy photo isn't it ?
The K10D would do it not a lot worse than that in that situation.

I would like to see a difficult light situation with high ISO, like the lightning in dancing clubs and other indoor low lightning events.
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