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01-25-2008, 01:52 AM   #271
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RAW files...

Anyone of happy holders and beta-testers..
Please upload ans share 1-2 original PEF/DNG files at ISO 100 and 200.
www dot rapidshare dot de or whatever other similar service helps!
Thanks!

01-25-2008, 02:05 AM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
You're right. Manual focus. However shown focus point tells us that K20D thought that this point must be in focus. Pentax DSLRs in manual focus mode indicate which focus point is in focus.
I am not sure how the exif data works in Manual mode. For my K10D, the AFPointsInFocus Exif data is always the same as the focal point selected whether there is any thing there or not.

QuoteQuote:
BTW, isn't this shot made with trap focus?
Can't seem to find any indication in the Exif one way or the other.
01-25-2008, 02:12 AM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
The Anti-Dust on the K10 has worked like a charm for me, but them I’m very careful and try to limit the situations where I have to change lenses, to more controlled environments.
A jump from 3 fps in the K10, to 6 fps in K20 would be a big leap. Particularly since the files are way bigger. (And I think IQ is of most importance, one of the reasons we go for SLRs).
I understand I had several times some dust on my sensor and the 'Dust Removal' couldn't remove it for me, I had to use my 'Rocket Blower' and/or sensor swaps.

A jump from 3 FPS from the K10D to 6 FPS for the K10D would be a big step yes, but they didn't need to base the 'new' K20D on the old K10D basis. They could rebuild the camera from stratch with in mind a bigger VF a higher quality shutter to handle the faster speed.
And since Samsung is a memory manufactor and is very keen in several types of processing chips they could bring a new 'processor' in the camera to handle those bigger files.
For the buffer they could use their DDR3 memory instead of their older generation DDR2 memory to give a boost in speed.
Off course IQ is one of the most important things, I think we all like to see a improvement in IQ always, if it can better please

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
I'm in line with what Tom Brown wrote on the other forum. :
"I have no doubt it's coming [more FPS]. Samsung is a global power in the semiconductor industry and I have no doubt the Pentax/Samsung collaboration will bring some world class results in the near future.
Ah, I hope so they do The technology is there at Samsung's place for the faster processing capacity and things. The mechanical stuff has to be come from the R&D at Pentax/Hoya's place.

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
If you *need* the very best fps performance, Pentax is not the brand for you. Who in here *needs* it, though? Who in here is going to hear themselves 20 years from now say, "You know... not having industry leading fps performance for 18 months back in 2008 is the reason I was never able to make a career for myself in photography." That's just silly.
Well I am not exactly in the 'need' but when it should be there I should use it for sure. I think should help a lot.
Hahaha

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Pentax will catch up. Personally, I think they've pulled a bigger rabbit out of the hat with high ISO, IQ, x-sync, and other improvements than they would have with fps improvements. If you were to switch that around and have a 5fps, 10Mp Sony sensor K10D being released right now, you would get a collective yawn."
Well I think the only 'real' improvement is the Higher ISO The *ist D had already a X-Sync, Pentax just 'forgot' to put that also in the K10D unfortunately.
Well if they brought us a 5/6 FPS camera with a Sony 12MP CMOS sensor(like the A700 and the D300) I think there were a lot satisfied

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
As Chris wrote ealier in the thread : "All picture styles work in RAW and Jpeg."
Ah okay...so it is a starting point for RAW's I hope it is just a 'setting' in RAW ? And no a touched RAW file than ?

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Yes, it is great that we have Oly. Makes all the rest of the gang, fit and healthy. Oly is IMO, one of the most innovative players in the SLR segment. Pentax also comes up with fun solutions, but more old school way; (some might say more photographer oriented than gear head, as I've stated in many areas i do have the gear head tendencies).
Yes Olympus is one of the innovators in the photography world now a days

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Sorry to hear, well good that insurance could cover it.
Yes it's a pitty, but luckely the insurance cover it yes

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Canon and Nikon also have problems with their glass, and have their fair share that go back. The more extreme design, and in particular with zooms, the more difficult to make.
As the professional reviewer and photographer Lloyd Chambers, who is extremely critical of his gear, has stated : “The assembly of the designed optic (especially a zoom lens) requires extremely high precision, especially with today’s high-resolution digital cameras, and thus more than a few “dogs” appear even in the pro lens lines of Canon and Nikon. I have personally experienced this problem on multiple occasions with both Canon and Nikon. A trip to factory service has always resolved the optical issues.”
(The DA* 16-50/2.8 AL ED [IF] SDM, has 15 elements in 12 groups
The DA* 50-135/2.8 ED [IF] SDM, has 18 elements in 14 groups)
Yes they, Canon and Nikon, have also some problems with their glass, but that's not a 'design flaw'. Yes it is a very high precision work now a days, I know that Canon has problems with their QC with their 24-70 2.8, that's not good off course, but the basis of that lens is superb it is very very difficult to manufacture even for the biggest manufacture of all.

Yes I know that the DA* 16-50 and the DA* 50-135 are complex design's

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Nikon saw a lot of critique BTW, about the way they went in handling the problems.
Yes Nikon got a lot of critique off course, they had released a camera with a big flaw, everybody should be upset I think ? And than is every 'handling' not enough..

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Yup, with all the different single letters on cameras and lenses, I mix it up at times. Will not help me, the day Pentax brings out the LX 3ND II Super Plus
Haha I understand

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
I, like you, would like a Pentax D300 level camera, as I’m a big fan of wildlife photography. But there is a reason that Canon & Nikon are industry leaders, Pentax will always be some generations behind them. Being a student, price would be a problem, but if the goods were up for it, I would be willing to lay down the cost.
But I don't know how representative we at forums are, likely we're more inclined to go with gear that most normal users would not buy, or tend to find too expensive.
Yes a Nikon D300 level camera, or a little bit above is(SR is one of them) , would be very nice indeed. I like very much to shoot people Not just still standing people but people who are very hard moving around
Yes Canon & Nikon are the industry leaders right now, but it can always change isn't it ?
Pentax were also a industry leader in the past, but were past by Canon and Nikon.

Yes costs is always a problem, especially for students. When I was a student, I just started to save money for a very long period and than after that buy something I really really liked
01-25-2008, 02:50 AM   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
I like very much to shoot people Not just still standing people but people who are very hard moving around
Wow!!!
Maybe you should try the S&W or the Beretta sidearm forums. I'm lucky I don't live near you!

( J.K. )

01-25-2008, 03:16 AM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
Jason,

I have no idea who is photographer. after reading mutley comment I just opened that sample picture in PhotoME. This excellent program is able to display focus points which were used to focus. Even when you use Autoselect Focus Points, it displays which point(s) was used to focus.

Look at thumbnail image. I did not paint that "[ ]" on thumbnail. Photo ME extracted focus point info from EXIF and displayed it. This is the focus point where K20D focussed at. If AF would work correct, front right cyclist would be in focus.
I use the Firefox Exif (Exchangeable Image File) Viewer Add-on. It easily told me that the exposure mode was manual.

If the photographer sets focus via his split prism, it is not necessarily the same setting that the camera would choose; should it want the right front rider in focus.
It could be that the camera had selected the right front rider in focus, but as the photographer wanted the captain in focus; he switched to manual and overrode the camera selection. No camera that I know of yet has AI, or metaphysical powers so that it can read your mind and find out which of the persons gathered you want in focus.


But as Muttley told us that it was taken with a Canon camera, I guess it really isn’t a Pentax problem. And of cause Larry can be trusted, he is as objective as they come, or something…

Last edited by Jonson PL; 01-25-2008 at 03:21 AM.
01-25-2008, 03:25 AM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by Philippos Quote
Wow!!!
Maybe you should try the S&W or the Beretta sidearm forums. I'm lucky I don't live near you!

( J.K. )
Huh ?
How do you mean ?
Did I say something strange ?(english is not my native language btw)
01-25-2008, 03:43 AM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Huh ?
How do you mean ?
Did I say something strange ?(english is not my native language btw)
Maybe if I continue your sentence from before, you’ll see what Philippos meant :

Priyantha Bleeker wrote :
“I like very much to shoot people Not just still standing people but people who are very hard moving around …. ducking, jumping, screaming




BTW, the Anti-Dust function was never meant to be a Dust Removal, meaning that you didn't have to pay attention when changing lenses. It was meant to prolong the time you could shoot without cleaning.You would still every once and a while have to use blower. Even in the filmdays, one did pay some attention not getting a ton of dust inside the film house.

The Anti-Dust is a help particularly on safaris, and the likes. User of older top model Canon cameras were complaining that they several times a day had to clean the inside of the camera. And they wanted also, the anti-dust functions that other brands had.
01-25-2008, 04:53 AM   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Maybe if I continue your sentence from before, you’ll see what Philippos meant :

Priyantha Bleeker wrote :
“I like very much to shoot people Not just still standing people but people who are very hard moving around …. ducking, jumping, screaming
Aah shooting in the meaning of shoot people dead or something haha.
No I didn't mean that
I mean people who are dancing and sort of things, photograph them

01-25-2008, 11:45 AM   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
A jump from 3 FPS from the K10D to 6 FPS for the K10D would be a big step yes, but they didn't need to base the 'new' K20D on the old K10D basis. They could rebuild the camera from stratch with in mind a bigger VF a higher quality shutter to handle the faster speed.
If Pentax did that, we would have to wait at least another year for a K10D replacement, and with this intense market situation and fierce competition, that would not do. It takes time to develop a new design and a new chassi. Using the old parts and upgrading firmware and putting in the new sensor, was much more time saving. Remember that the K10D was released autumn 2006. Now we have the K20D ready to roll out from the factories about 14 months after the K10D release.
Canon did a similar thing with the EOS 30D going to 40D. Minor changes in the body with a few sealings, a new imaging pipeline, a larger LCD, live view. The rest was already there!

Sony made even less changes when the A100 became the A200.
Nikon has a D90 to be put out soon. Probably a D80 with larger LCD and the 12Mp as new sensor. LiveView? Perhaps, perhaps not.
01-25-2008, 12:52 PM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Huh ?
How do you mean ?
Did I say something strange ?(english is not my native language btw)
Shoot people as with a hand gun.... Smith and Wesson (S&W) and Beretta are gun manufacturers..
Home Page - Smith & Wesson
It was meant as humor......
01-25-2008, 01:00 PM   #281
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Fraknly, I wouldn't call Olympus 'Innovative' unless you define that as selling overly tiny & utterly average cameras and making massively overpriced and extremely misleadingly advertised mid-range cameras(World's Fastest AF, my bare posterior. The E-3's AF is no better than a D200 or 30D and not even close to a 1-series or D3/D300). Oly did innovate early-on in the 4/3rds lineup, but hasn't debuted an actually innovative feature since the E-300 (the second E-series body) introduced actually usable Live View to the DSLR world (Fuji offered a 'Live View' mode that was utterly useless for more than Still Life setups in one of their earlier bodies). Even the E-400/E-410's 'size' advantage is nothing more than removing the ergonomic grip to make the camera smaller, ruining handling in the process. It's only marginally smaller than a D40X anyways.


These days the most innovative thinking has been from Pentax and Nikon, with Sony and Panasonic running behind (Panasonic has been innovating, albeit somewhat unsuccessfully, with camera UI and the entire 'kit lens' concept). Canon has simply been evolving the same basic (and competent) concept that they introduced 20 years ago with the EOS system and all of their groundbreaking has been in improving obvious concepts (FF sensors, AF sensor design)
01-25-2008, 01:12 PM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
Canon did a similar thing with the EOS 30D going to 40D. Minor changes in the body with a few sealings, a new imaging pipeline, a larger LCD, live view. The rest was already there!

Sony made even less changes when the A100 became the A200.
Nikon has a D90 to be put out soon. Probably a D80 with larger LCD and the 12Mp as new sensor. LiveView? Perhaps, perhaps not.
Actually, the 40D is massively revamped in the usual Canon way. Very similar layout, but if you pay attention there's really little actually held over from the 30D. Same way the mkIII's superficially resemble mkII's, but are complete redesigns. The thing is that Canon has long settled on UI and form factors (the 1 series dates back to 1989 in basic UI and much of the 40D's UI was introduced with the A2e/5 in the early 90's). But if you look, the 40D's far better built than the 20D/30D, marginally larger, has a completely new viewfinder, updated UI layout and more. Note also that the 450D is using essentially the same UI introduced on the 300D, with minor layout changes, but the internals are new (including the best pentamirror VF ever put in a DSLR). Canon is very conservative when it comes to control layout in its cameras, far more than other makers (Ever tried a Nikon F70?, Or a Maxxum 9?, or a MZ-S?).

Sony also completely revamped the UI on the A200. While the body shape and some controls come from the D5D and A100, and the sensor is the same, the overall control scheme is taken from the A700's revamp, not the A100, as is the processing pipeline. Just about everything changed from the A100 (which was little more than a Dynax 5D with a 10MP sensor stuffed in it).

As to the D90, it's going to be a slower, simplified D300, stuffed into a smaller, plastic-skinned body. Same equation that worked so successfully for the D200/D80. 12MP, Live View, fast AF, smaller body. I'm guessing 4-5fps (to give it an advantage over the competition and the D40X and its replacement). Probably the same basic body design as the D50/D80, it's a very good design already.
01-25-2008, 02:55 PM   #283
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Wow, after reading through all the K20 posts you'd think Pentax was asked to cure a rare form of cancer. Great review codiac and thanks for your insite Ben. Since I have only had my K10 a couple of months and am still trying to just learn to take decent pictures, with a great camera, I will leave it to the pros to give their point of few on the Pentax's new baby. [thanks again Ben as you and a couple of others at least tell it the way it is based on actually using the camera] Enjoy the forum and take care all. JIMBO
01-26-2008, 03:21 AM   #284
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QuoteOriginally posted by mawz Quote
Fraknly, I wouldn't call Olympus 'Innovative' unless you define that as selling overly tiny & utterly average cameras and making massively overpriced and extremely misleadingly advertised mid-range cameras(World's Fastest AF, my bare posterior. The E-3's AF is no better than a D200 or 30D and not even close to a 1-series or D3/D300).
The "fastest AF" claim from Olympus is with the new 12-60 SWD lens, and only with this lens. Not the other lenses.
01-26-2008, 03:30 AM   #285
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Mawz - the thing with the competition is that they have shutters, mirrors, AF etc developed for high-end models that they can simply get into the lower models. Pentax does not have a model above the K10D/K20D.

The high-end models last longer on the market than the lower end models, they live more. This means Nikon, Canon etc has had time to develop those things - they did it long ago. Pentax - must make new developments and this take time, it wasn't ready for a K10D replacement. How long took it for Nikon to move from D200 to D300? 14 months like Pentax K10D to K20D? Well, you now it took much longer time than that. And this is my key point - Pentax needs more time. The others can simply choose parts from their existing warehouse and putting this into different combinations. Pentax needs to develop those parts first, and they are doing it for an upmarket body ("K1D") and when this body is ready, then they can move this technology down to lesser models.

Sony has a special case here, since they are a much bigger company and has much more money and R&D. But Pentax, not even with Samsung, is a big company. Samsung is quite new in digital imaging, Sony has longer experience.
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