Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
01-23-2008, 05:08 PM   #76
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 475
QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Pentax K20D

First there is a PC sync port that has an overload circuit incase you have a surge.

Things that didnít changeÖ Iím going to get this out of the way really early and tell everyone that the AF sensor, AF drive motor, mirror assembly and associated parts are all the same besides a dampened mirror bay. This is really going to make a lot of users unhappy because a lot of people have frustrations with the AF system of the Pentax K10D including myself. I was explained the reason and here it is so itís out there:

Pentax engineers had two choices when updating the K10D in order to stay profitable. One was to advance the AF system and mechanisms to bring it up and beyond the current cameras in the class. Second was to advance the imaging and allow it to be the most advanced photographic tool available. Pentax went with upgrading the imaging guts because having a better AF system and the older imaging end wouldnít sell well enough. Every camera on the block has a newer AF system, but the imaging system isnít anything that stellar till you jump to the full frame models. In my honest opinion I would also go with imaging vs. AF system any day, but thatís because in my mind the quality of the image matters more than how well the camera can focus/track/predict. I feel that this is the only area in which this camera fails to be the most astounding camera of 2008. Many camera reviewers will look at this and will probably point this out enough to bring the value of the camera down, but Pentax has a few tricks up their sleeves and I will explain this all later. I got this straight from the Pentax Japan engineers that were there training the US sales reps on the K20D.
First of all , thanks for the effort and information!

Secondly, I am happy to have a pc sync! That is a welcome addition.

As for the AF system staying the same, well, let's just say that I smell marketing spin in the story you were told.

Do not get me wrong, I do not need fast, predictive continuous AF, and the current system is ok (not great) in low light and fast enough in decent light, but it is a common complaint of many users and I cannot disagree with most of those complaints about the AF system.

But, I digress, so back to the spin smell: I suspect that Pentax (read: Hoya) just could not afford the time to re-design the entire AF system while also introducing a brand-new (apparently) leading edge sensor and camera system.

I also suspect that they took a calculated risk based upon the fact that they have never had any portion of the action shooting market, and no matter what they did, would not siphon off any Canon or Nikon action shooters. Moreover, if an AF overhaul was going to cost a lot of money and push the body up in price to a point where it would be near the Canon and Nikon models, many of the traditional Pentax base might start to think that the Pentax value equation or bang for the buck was no longer a significant enticement. This is even more true with a lagging lens lineup, especially at the tele end. Many have been willing to put up with lagging performance in things like AF because the value and image quality that you get with the Pentax products, along with some true innovation (like magnetic SR), but we would be less likely to do so were the price of the Pentax body equal to the Canon and Nikon models.

You also sometimes just have to get to market with the best product you can come up with in the time you have available. In that regard, it seems to me to be more important to get the new sensor out there instead of waiting who knows how long to perfect the next AF system while your competition cathes up or passes you in sensor technology and IQ.

At the end of the day, I really like the low light possibilities of the K20D based upon the few samples I have seen to date, so this camera might take the number one spot at some point putting the K10D into backup and the current K10D backup on the auction block.

To me, it is what the K10D should have been....

Ray

01-23-2008, 05:13 PM   #77
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Duplo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Copenhagen
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 924
QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Well if you feel a 30D/40D and a D200 or a D300 and after that a K10D you will feel the difference.
The Canon and Nikon 'counterparts' are just tighter built more rugged
Mmm how can the K20D comparable to the D300 and 40D when it hasn't those AF and FPS performance like the Big two ?
I have handheld the 30D, D200 and K10D side by side, this summer.
To me the D200 and K10D are almost identical, the 30D worse than the 2 others.

Recently I did it again with a 40D, D300 and K10D, the 40D and K10D, seems pretty equal to me in build still a slight edge to the K10D I would say, but the D300 felt the best build.

Now compare any of the above to the D3 or 1DsIII and we are talking differences that are easily felt and seen.

I say it came close, except for the AF and FPS. if those two are not major issues for your intented use, then it will get close. for those disciplines my D3 will outclass any of the mentioned anyway

YMMV, but above comment is my thoughs based on handling the bodies.

Last edited by Duplo; 01-23-2008 at 05:19 PM. Reason: forgot to add..
01-23-2008, 05:14 PM   #78
Junior Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 40
QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Well the 40D and the D300 are both weather sealed And using also both a Magnesium body.
They also feel build tighter as the K10D And because the K20D is the same body(the basis) there is no difference.
D300 is weather sealed. But there's no way the 40D is even remotely weather sealed. I just sold two of them. FPS was good but that's the only thing I liked.
01-23-2008, 05:15 PM   #79
Veteran Member
PaulAndAPentax's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 390
Thanks Chris....an excellent write up....well the wait is over and I see some things I like about the new K20D but I think I am one of those that Ben said would be disappointed. I think all bird and wildlife shooters will be...I was hoping for a camera I could use in the ballroom to shoot weddings and then take to the field to shoot birds in flight. Looks like I got the wedding camera but not the birding one....I would have been happy with a true 4 fps with an AF that didn't lag. Oh well. I certainly looks a great cam for the professional who doesn't need or want speed...

01-23-2008, 05:20 PM   #80
Veteran Member
codiac2600's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Posts: 2,030
Original Poster
I'm not understanding how some people can call this a light upgrade to the K10D...

We have a totally redesigned sensor that no one else has, we have a new screen that no one has, we have a image engine that no one has, we have added live view, we still have weather sealing that the 40D still doesn't have, the only things we do not have is the AF system of the Canon/Nikon cameras?

Honestly, Pentax has things nobody else in the market has and they have things we don't have. Canon has the best AF because thats what the devoted all their time and money into when they went to an AF camera.
01-23-2008, 05:20 PM   #81
Pentaxian
panoguy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,290
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Pulley Quote
At the end of the day, I really like the low light possibilities of the K20D based upon the few samples I have seen to date, so this camera might take the number one spot at some point putting the K10D into backup and the current K10D backup on the auction block.
Oh yeah, I smell bargains galore on eekBay searching for "used K10D body only" in the next few days...

But I've been patiently awaiting the K20D and its high-sensitivity sensor and its wide bracketing for almost 6 months now. Bank account meet B&H! (Not waiting for the Canadian retailers to charge me more to ship the camera long after the NY shops have sold out!)

-Mark
01-23-2008, 05:23 PM   #82
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,414
As to build quality...

First, the Canon 10/20/30/40D series have a Magnesium ALLOY shell that does not impress me. It still feels a bit weak.

Secondly, Magnesium is more of a marketing tool than anything. It still breaks. The "plastic" used in Pentax camera shells is a poly-carbonate material, similar to the material in bullet proof windows and blast shields. It is very strong but cheaper and lighter than metal. (No, the cameras are not bullet proof, but they are quite durable).

I have put the K10 up to the 30D and I thought the Pentax felt more rugged overall. The D2000/300 does feel slightly more rugged, but at the cost of being far too heavy for my to lug around.
01-23-2008, 05:25 PM   #83
Pentaxian
panoguy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,290
QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
I'm not understanding how some people can call this a light upgrade to the K10D...
They most likely just bought Canon or Nikon cameras... or got a sweet deal on a K10D and have buyer's remorse.

It won't be "absolutely perfect" for anybody, but pragmatists and optimists will say "better than good enough for me." The more naysayers and measurebators the better - I'll have a shorter pre-order waiting list and a lot more fun *shooting photographs!*

-Mark

01-23-2008, 05:26 PM   #84
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Duplo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Copenhagen
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 924
QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
I'm not understanding how some people can call this a light upgrade to the K10D...

We have a totally redesigned sensor that no one else has, we have a new screen that no one has, we have a image engine that no one has, we have added live view, we still have weather sealing that the 40D still doesn't have, the only things we do not have is the AF system of the Canon/Nikon cameras?

Honestly, Pentax has things nobody else in the market has and they have things we don't have. Canon has the best AF because thats what the devoted all their time and money into when they went to an AF camera.
Chris I agree completely.

I actually prefer the nikon AF in the D3 to the 1d series version, but that is not really the topic here.

The K20D looks to be a great camera and I most likely will be in line for one
01-23-2008, 05:26 PM   #85
Pentaxian
jgredline's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: LosAngeles, Ca.
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,587
The day the K20D is out, I will pick one up.
01-23-2008, 05:26 PM   #86
Veteran Member
Duck Dodgers's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: in the 24Ĺth Century!
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 439
Nice review, Chris. Thanks.

QuoteQuote:
-Fixing front/back focus issues. Right in the custom function you can access this bad boy to fix any lens and store up to 20 profiles so all your lenses can be perfect!
THIS really needs to be brought back to the K10D, in all seriousness. ASAP.
01-23-2008, 05:27 PM   #87
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern California
Posts: 475
QuoteOriginally posted by Maxington Quote
I was looking at buying a Nikon D200 for a friend a while ago, and I hit this wall as well, I couldn't find ANYTHING official on what lenses are sealed and what aren't. Can't see the point in a sealed body without officially sealed lenses. If they won't market them as sealed, I get suspicious. Manufacturers usually shout those sort of advantages as loudly as possible.

At least Pentax you know exactly which ones are, heh.
LOL!

I have taken a 12 step program since the K10D came out, so I will wait some months for this camera to shake out the inevitable bugs and also for the inevible 40% price reduction that seems to come after 6 months or so.

I know that Codiac says that Pentax will hold firm on pricing and there will be no rebates, but that does not mean that the retail selling price will hold over time. After all, it is not the rebates that have driven the K10D from $899 to the $600 range.

Ray
01-23-2008, 05:28 PM   #88
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,414
Do Canon or Nikon have self repairing sensors to remove stuck pixels? Do they have dust mapping that shows you exactly where the dust is in your camera? I have forgotten some of the others, but it seems to me that this camera has things that the others do not. If it is not in the same class as the 40D or D300 it is because it is in a class by itself. It will be the highest MP camera without FF, so if the noise is as good as it seems right now it will be the most unique sensor out there.

Nothing to write home about, though.
01-23-2008, 05:30 PM   #89
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,414
Oh yeah, I just got back from the camera store. I put in my order. While I was there they were getting other calls about both of these cameras.
01-23-2008, 05:31 PM   #90
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Chester, PA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,420
QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
I'm not understanding how some people can call this a light upgrade to the K10D...

We have a totally redesigned sensor that no one else has, we have a new screen that no one has, we have a image engine that no one has, we have added live view, we still have weather sealing that the 40D still doesn't have, the only things we do not have is the AF system of the Canon/Nikon cameras?

Honestly, Pentax has things nobody else in the market has and they have things we don't have. Canon has the best AF because thats what the devoted all their time and money into when they went to an AF camera.
I'm the kind who replies publicly, and does not send slanderous comments via PM in an attempt to hide. I say what I say openly and honestly.

Pentax innovated with the K10D. They made great moves - they enhanced the speed, the interface, and the ergonomics. I'm sure Pentax too was disappointed that there wasn't a sensor that fit the remaining innovations in the body. I'm happy for them if they finally found a sensor that they like.

The image engine? Whatever. The engine in the K10D didn't help it's weak sensor. Shake reduction? We've been told in previous iterations how great it was, I don't see how this is an innovation. Dust reduction? The K10D was pretty good, at least to me. Live View is a keeping-up-with-the-Joneses, Pentax is not the first.

So we have a sensor and a 1.6MP 20fps burst. Great. Not groundbreaking. Not even innovative. I call it more iterative.

Which is fine. Just not living up to your hype.

(Also, do the math. Even if your '12 Megapixel' pitch number is correct, that would give it about 32,000 pixels per square mm. The K10D has around 27,000.)
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
af, camera, image, images, k10d, mode, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, pixels, sensor, system
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tennis at ISO 2500 codiac2600 Post Your Photos! 10 07-23-2008 02:57 PM
K20D and the Online Pentaxian Community (essay) Frank Fletcher Pentax DSLR Discussion 20 01-30-2008 03:29 PM
Anyone have a spare $2500 lying around? Finn Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 7 12-12-2007 11:52 AM
Vivitar 2500 on K100D DavidH Pentax DSLR Discussion 7 09-14-2007 03:05 AM
Pentax FA 28-70 $2500 Wethphotography Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 22 01-31-2007 08:27 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:02 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top