My 2500 word essay on the K20D

Maxington · 01-23-2008, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Priyantha Bleeker

Well if you feel a 30D/40D and a D200 or a D300 and after that a K10D you will feel the difference.
The Canon and Nikon 'counterparts' are just tighter built more rugged

Mmm how can the K20D comparable to the D300 and 40D when it hasn't those AF and FPS performance like the Big two ?

How can the Canon/Nikon bodies be "more rugged" when neither of them are weather sealed? That classes as "less rugged" in my book.

Priyantha Bleeker · 01-23-2008, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by carpents

I 100% agree.

It should really be called the K10D2. That's fine, but let's not proclaim it to be ground-breaking, like many here already have.

Well the K20D is just the K10D what it should have been on the introduction but the sensor wasn't ready.
Yes the Live View is nice...but that's the only 'new' feature there is in the 'K10D' body which wasn't on the planning in the first place.

But Pentax did introduce the K10D with a inferior Sony 10MP CCD and with some crippled functions(no AF adjustments in a menu, no X-contact), they had to introduce the camera faster as planned I think because they needed the sales to be sure the survived(after all they did half...

I think Pentax should name the K20D als 'K10D Super' just like what they did with the good old 'ME' and 'ME Super' the 'ME Super' was a real improvement over the normal 'ME' and not just a firmware fix and a couple of electronic sensors in the mount and again a firmware fix with the 'K100D' to 'K100D Super'.
They should make then a good statement I think, because than they can say 'Look we have upgraded our K10D but it is a evolution of the old model, we are working on a revolutionary new model for the future'

Priyantha Bleeker · 01-23-2008, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Maxington

How can the Canon/Nikon bodies be "more rugged" when neither of them are weather sealed? That classes as "less rugged" in my book.

Well the 40D and the D300 are both weather sealed

And using also both a Magnesium body.
They also feel build tighter as the K10D

And because the K20D is the same body(the basis) there is no difference.

Ole · 01-23-2008, 04:48 PM

Great overview, thanks for taking the time to explain all this!

ycl · 01-23-2008, 04:50 PM

Chris -

Seriously, Pentax should throw a few of the new K20s your way for that write-up.

It sounds like Pentax has, once again, come up with some terrific features for practicing photographers. I had no intention of getting one until I read about these "details" (as always, the devil is in the details!); very impressive (and useful) improvements ....

Let's hope the sensor lives up to your words!

cvicisso · 01-23-2008, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Maxington

How can the Canon/Nikon bodies be "more rugged" when neither of them are weather sealed? That classes as "less rugged" in my book.

The Nikon D200/300 (and D3 obviously) bodies are weather sealed. The lenses however, for some insanely bizarre reason, are not... mostly.

I've never been able to get an official answer on the Nikkor lenses regarding weather sealing.

Jodokast96 · 01-23-2008, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by cajuncutter

The only reason I am not pulling the trigger just this second is to see some sort of review on it for the ease of use factor. I know some are going to cringe when I say this and will tell me to just go get a point and shoot but I would like a camera that my wife can learn over time but just be able to simply pick up and start firing when she needs to. My time will soon be limited and in a way I wish I would have gotten the K10D a month ago when I was thinking about it but I was holding out on the new models to see if the liveview would have come with the 200 model. If it would have and in the 700 range I would have been all over it. Since it is not the K10d for $484 after MIR is looking hot right now. I just don't know if it will be harder to learn than the 200. That will be the only selling point as of right now. If it is about the same on the learning curve then K10D it will be.

One shouldn't be any harder to learn than the other. Stick it in Green mode and fire away. Other than the scene modes, it's mostly the same, but because of the extra wheel on the K10D, it should actually be easier to use since you won't have to menu-dive as much.

nosnoop · 01-23-2008, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Priyantha Bleeker

I think Pentax should name the K20D als 'K10D Super' just like what they did with the good old 'ME' and 'ME Super'

I totally disagree. A brand new sensor alone would warrant the new model name. A "super" is for cameras with essentially the same gut. For most customers, going from a 10MP camera to a 14MP camera is a big jump.

codiac2600 · 01-23-2008, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Priyantha Bleeker

Well the 40D and the D300 are both weather sealed

And using also both a Magnesium body.
They also feel build tighter as the K10D

And because the K20D is the same body(the basis) there is no difference.

Sorry you are both wrong, the Canon 40D is not weather sealed but the D200/300 are and thats a fact you can take to the bank.

Maxington · 01-23-2008, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Priyantha Bleeker

Well the 40D and the D300 are both weather sealed

And using also both a Magnesium body.
They also feel build tighter as the K10D

And because the K20D is the same body(the basis) there is no difference.

Oops, the D300 is weather sealed, I didn't mean to write Nikon in there, heh.

The Canon D40 isn't weather sealed. Its got some partial sealing on the battery and card compartments, thats all.

Tom M · 01-23-2008, 04:56 PM

I gotta say, I've bought into Pentax 35mm recently so I could shoot different styles of B&W more easily. I've been so interested in it that I've been using three separate cameras as well as a digital Canon that composed in B&W for my shots.. I've got it down to a science, I can make a 35mm look digital, I can make digital look like film and I can make either look like whatever the hell pleases me... One caveat.. The best images come from that damned Canon that allowed me to compose in B&W, even if I could only use those images for smaller prints.. THIS is the sole reason, well, besides the increased DR of the new sensor that I will buy this camera.. Looking forward to PRE-ORDER!!! YippEE!!

Ps. F! The AF!! I don't need no stinkin' AF!!! (Though, the new Trap-Focus is going to be the hidden secret - sports shooters will love it I;m sure)

Priyantha Bleeker · 01-23-2008, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by codiac2600

Sorry you are both wrong, the Canon 40D is not weather sealed but the D200/300 are and thats a fact you can take to the bank.

Yes your right

I see I did make a mistake

The Nikon's are weather sealed, Canon does weather sealing only on the 1-series models and only partly on the 40D.

cvicisso · 01-23-2008, 04:58 PM

Chris - thanks for the great and timely review! I think your teaser was a bit overzealous (you had me thinking this thing could do miracles!), but I understand your enthusiasm.

Well, the K20D seems like a really decent camera, though certainly won't turn the world on its head, and I agree that it would have been more appropriate to call it a K10D-Super, but that's how it goes, I guess. I was really hoping for something to push me off of this Nikon/Olympus/Pentax fence of indecision I've been stuck on for a while now. Still can't decide which system to go with, but... the K20D announcement probably just narrowed it down to two for me... just not in the way that I had hoped.

Oh well...

equinox · 01-23-2008, 05:00 PM

Chris excellent job on the write up.

Looking forward to seing some images off the new camera.

Maxington · 01-23-2008, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by cvicisso

The Nikon D200/300 (and D3 obviously) bodies are weather sealed. The lenses however, for some insanely bizarre reason, are not... mostly.

I've never been able to get an official answer on the Nikkor lenses regarding weather sealing.

I was looking at buying a Nikon D200 for a friend a while ago, and I hit this wall as well, I couldn't find ANYTHING official on what lenses are sealed and what aren't. Can't see the point in a sealed body without officially sealed lenses. If they won't market them as sealed, I get suspicious. Manufacturers usually shout those sort of advantages as loudly as possible.

At least Pentax you know exactly which ones are, heh.

01-23-2008, 04:50 PM	#65
ycl Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: NY, NY, USA Posts: 37	Thanks! Chris - Seriously, Pentax should throw a few of the new K20s your way for that write-up. It sounds like Pentax has, once again, come up with some terrific features for practicing photographers. I had no intention of getting one until I read about these "details" (as always, the devil is in the details!); very impressive (and useful) improvements .... Let's hope the sensor lives up to your words!

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01-23-2008, 04:41 PM	#61
Maxington Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 255	Originally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Well if you feel a 30D/40D and a D200 or a D300 and after that a K10D you will feel the difference. The Canon and Nikon 'counterparts' are just tighter built more rugged Mmm how can the K20D comparable to the D300 and 40D when it hasn't those AF and FPS performance like the Big two ? How can the Canon/Nikon bodies be "more rugged" when neither of them are weather sealed? That classes as "less rugged" in my book.

01-23-2008, 04:43 PM	#62
Priyantha Bleeker Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 190	Originally posted by carpents I 100% agree. It should really be called the K10D2. That's fine, but let's not proclaim it to be ground-breaking, like many here already have. Well the K20D is just the K10D what it should have been on the introduction but the sensor wasn't ready. Yes the Live View is nice...but that's the only 'new' feature there is in the 'K10D' body which wasn't on the planning in the first place. But Pentax did introduce the K10D with a inferior Sony 10MP CCD and with some crippled functions(no AF adjustments in a menu, no X-contact), they had to introduce the camera faster as planned I think because they needed the sales to be sure the survived(after all they did half... I think Pentax should name the K20D als 'K10D Super' just like what they did with the good old 'ME' and 'ME Super' the 'ME Super' was a real improvement over the normal 'ME' and not just a firmware fix and a couple of electronic sensors in the mount and again a firmware fix with the 'K100D' to 'K100D Super'. They should make then a good statement I think, because than they can say 'Look we have upgraded our K10D but it is a evolution of the old model, we are working on a revolutionary new model for the future'

01-23-2008, 04:47 PM	#63
Priyantha Bleeker Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 190	Originally posted by Maxington How can the Canon/Nikon bodies be "more rugged" when neither of them are weather sealed? That classes as "less rugged" in my book. Well the 40D and the D300 are both weather sealed And using also both a Magnesium body. They also feel build tighter as the K10D And because the K20D is the same body(the basis) there is no difference.

01-23-2008, 04:48 PM	#64
Ole Administrator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,408	Great overview, thanks for taking the time to explain all this!

01-23-2008, 04:50 PM	#66
cvicisso New Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 11	Originally posted by Maxington How can the Canon/Nikon bodies be "more rugged" when neither of them are weather sealed? That classes as "less rugged" in my book. The Nikon D200/300 (and D3 obviously) bodies are weather sealed. The lenses however, for some insanely bizarre reason, are not... mostly. I've never been able to get an official answer on the Nikkor lenses regarding weather sealing.

01-23-2008, 04:50 PM	#67
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134	Originally posted by cajuncutter The only reason I am not pulling the trigger just this second is to see some sort of review on it for the ease of use factor. I know some are going to cringe when I say this and will tell me to just go get a point and shoot but I would like a camera that my wife can learn over time but just be able to simply pick up and start firing when she needs to. My time will soon be limited and in a way I wish I would have gotten the K10D a month ago when I was thinking about it but I was holding out on the new models to see if the liveview would have come with the 200 model. If it would have and in the 700 range I would have been all over it. Since it is not the K10d for $484 after MIR is looking hot right now. I just don't know if it will be harder to learn than the 200. That will be the only selling point as of right now. If it is about the same on the learning curve then K10D it will be. One shouldn't be any harder to learn than the other. Stick it in Green mode and fire away. Other than the scene modes, it's mostly the same, but because of the extra wheel on the K10D, it should actually be easier to use since you won't have to menu-dive as much.

01-23-2008, 04:51 PM	#68
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by Priyantha Bleeker I think Pentax should name the K20D als 'K10D Super' just like what they did with the good old 'ME' and 'ME Super' I totally disagree. A brand new sensor alone would warrant the new model name. A "super" is for cameras with essentially the same gut. For most customers, going from a 10MP camera to a 14MP camera is a big jump.

01-23-2008, 04:52 PM	#69
codiac2600 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Rockford, Illinois Posts: 2,027 Original Poster	Originally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Well the 40D and the D300 are both weather sealed And using also both a Magnesium body. They also feel build tighter as the K10D And because the K20D is the same body(the basis) there is no difference. Sorry you are both wrong, the Canon 40D is not weather sealed but the D200/300 are and thats a fact you can take to the bank.

01-23-2008, 04:53 PM	#70
Maxington Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 255	Originally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Well the 40D and the D300 are both weather sealed And using also both a Magnesium body. They also feel build tighter as the K10D And because the K20D is the same body(the basis) there is no difference. Oops, the D300 is weather sealed, I didn't mean to write Nikon in there, heh. The Canon D40 isn't weather sealed. Its got some partial sealing on the battery and card compartments, thats all.

01-23-2008, 04:56 PM	#71
Tom M Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lincoln Park, NJ Photos: Gallery Posts: 780	I gotta say, I've bought into Pentax 35mm recently so I could shoot different styles of B&W more easily. I've been so interested in it that I've been using three separate cameras as well as a digital Canon that composed in B&W for my shots.. I've got it down to a science, I can make a 35mm look digital, I can make digital look like film and I can make either look like whatever the hell pleases me... One caveat.. The best images come from that damned Canon that allowed me to compose in B&W, even if I could only use those images for smaller prints.. THIS is the sole reason, well, besides the increased DR of the new sensor that I will buy this camera.. Looking forward to PRE-ORDER!!! YippEE!! Ps. F! The AF!! I don't need no stinkin' AF!!! (Though, the new Trap-Focus is going to be the hidden secret - sports shooters will love it I;m sure)

01-23-2008, 04:57 PM	#72
Priyantha Bleeker Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 190	Originally posted by codiac2600 Sorry you are both wrong, the Canon 40D is not weather sealed but the D200/300 are and thats a fact you can take to the bank. Yes your right I see I did make a mistake The Nikon's are weather sealed, Canon does weather sealing only on the 1-series models and only partly on the 40D.

01-23-2008, 04:58 PM	#73
cvicisso New Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 11	Chris - thanks for the great and timely review! I think your teaser was a bit overzealous (you had me thinking this thing could do miracles!), but I understand your enthusiasm. Well, the K20D seems like a really decent camera, though certainly won't turn the world on its head, and I agree that it would have been more appropriate to call it a K10D-Super, but that's how it goes, I guess. I was really hoping for something to push me off of this Nikon/Olympus/Pentax fence of indecision I've been stuck on for a while now. Still can't decide which system to go with, but... the K20D announcement probably just narrowed it down to two for me... just not in the way that I had hoped. Oh well...

01-23-2008, 05:00 PM	#74
equinox Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 159	Chris excellent job on the write up. Looking forward to seing some images off the new camera.

01-23-2008, 05:00 PM	#75
Maxington Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 255	Originally posted by cvicisso The Nikon D200/300 (and D3 obviously) bodies are weather sealed. The lenses however, for some insanely bizarre reason, are not... mostly. I've never been able to get an official answer on the Nikkor lenses regarding weather sealing. I was looking at buying a Nikon D200 for a friend a while ago, and I hit this wall as well, I couldn't find ANYTHING official on what lenses are sealed and what aren't. Can't see the point in a sealed body without officially sealed lenses. If they won't market them as sealed, I get suspicious. Manufacturers usually shout those sort of advantages as loudly as possible. At least Pentax you know exactly which ones are, heh.