My 2500 word essay on the K20D

Sleepy · 01-23-2008, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by rzarbo

Chris,
Being one of the soccer moms referred to in an earlier post I am very disappointed about the lack of improvement to the AF. It is my only complaint with the K10d. I am not a fan of Canon and I am not in the league of the d300 skillwise (a camera I have heard experienced d200 users call overwhelming and intimidating) so I was really hoping Pentax would come through for me.

Same here. I think the features K20D has are great except for its AF.
I really don't get it why Pentax wouldn't want to have the improved as well.

However, since benjikan said the AF is faster and more accurate, let's wait the testing reports to see how the AF goes.

Thanks for sharing all the info, codiac2600.

HawaiianOnline · 01-23-2008, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Sleepy

Same here. I think the features K20D has are great except for its AF.
I really don't get it why Pentax wouldn't want to have the improved as well.

However, since benjikan said the AF is faster and more accurate, let's wait the testing reports to see how the AF goes.

Thanks for sharing all the info, codiac2600.

Indeed. Although the embargo has ended, we won't know for sure until the professional measurebators

(read reviewers and not certain shady characters) have at it. I for one will reserve judgement on it until after the in-depth reviews com out.

George Lama · 01-23-2008, 09:54 PM

Fantastic review - Thanks a lot!

Lots of great features as expected. My K10D is ready to become the backup/second camera!

The fact that all accessories except the battery are compatible is a definite plus! And the improvement in image IQ is something I certainly look forward to. Sadly AF isn't improved but if the IQ is indeed that improved, I'd rather deal with manual focusing anyway. For this camera, I might even consider trying out one of the split-prism focusing screens.

Now all I need to do is collect enough aluminum cans and sell them at the recycling center before the camera hits the shelves.

Yee shall be mine!

a a i b · 01-23-2008, 09:56 PM

Well, I'm excited. The new camera seems poised to excell in low-light, and I've grown very fond of the K10D's form factor and ergonomics. Unless pictures out of the new camera really aren't an improvement over the K10D, I'll get one for sure.

Thanks to Chris for the great write up.

raz-0 · 01-23-2008, 10:08 PM

I think it is a very sensible camera. It offers tempting improvements to a lot of people if not everyone. (higer resolution with less noise than K10D).

It makes pentax much more viable for wedding and event photographers, which is important as they spend lots of money on gear fairly regularly. (increased dynamic range, less noise, and higher iso).

It has features to make it attractive to landscape photographers. (extended dynamic range and increased resolution, timed exposures in camera)

It has features to make it more attractive to macro photographers. (bf/FF correction, and I suspect manual focus works in live view)

It has features to make it mor attractive to people doing the strobist type thing. (PC sync)

All in it only seems to drop the ball for action photographers, and honestly you can take good action photos at 3fps too. At least there seem to be folks producing them. Most of the really spectacular shots from action photogs I have seen where I could ask questions have not been super machine gunny shots relying on quick af. Mostly they were prefocused and wait for the action to come to you.

It looks cool. My photography budget for the next year is likely to be spent on lenses though, but that was a given regardless of how cool the k20D might have been.

bt*ist · 01-23-2008, 10:47 PM

Thanks so much for your essay : every word was a joy to read.

Just wanted to check something. A Megapixel measurement is simply a width x height equation, right? So isn't 1.6 megapixels (checks internet) 1540 pixels x 1024 pixels... but in this case attached to a high-dslr-quality sensor rather than (say) a 5hitty sony ericsson mobile telephone's sensor? At 20fps that would be AWESOME : most of the photos I deal with are resized down for the web at 800x533pixels, which is perfectly adequate for standard-sized photos if not slightly bigger.

And more than ANYTHING I can't wait to see non-numerical comparisons between this camera's IQ and that of Nikon/Canon. Forget Megapixels, forget frames per second. Sorry all you measurebaters out there, but let's have some photos of the same high-dynamic range subject on three 'equivalent' cameras and do a comparison that way. THAT'S what I want to see. Photography is Art, not Science. There is room for judgements as to 'beauty' as well. Somehow.

(All that said... I love my K10D and look forward to continued happy shooting with it for some time yet!)

jgredline · 01-23-2008, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by bt*ist

Thanks so much for your essay : every word was a joy to read.

Just wanted to check something. A Megapixel measurement is simply a width x height equation, right? So isn't 1.6 megapixels (checks internet) 1540 pixels x 1024 pixels...

This is exactly what I was thinking.

TFTM · 01-23-2008, 11:10 PM

Once more, thanks Chris for the review.

My 2c on the K20D.

For me its not quite earth shattering. I applaud the better IQ tweaks such as better ISO, dynamic range and such. On the other hand, the AF system, FPS and Sync Speed are disappointments. I know Pentax wanted to have something out there to stay competitive but these were also areas that needed improving upon just as much as IQ. For the Strobists, 1/180 sync is a bit low and just accepting the failings of the current AF system seems asinine. What good is my ISO 3200 if I can't focus on my subject when I need to use such a high sensitivity?

That being said, the improvements that have been made are reason enough to get one; gotta start saving!

philmorley · 01-23-2008, 11:24 PM

any idea how long the 60-250 has been pushed back?

A 'fun' reason is intriquing, can't really imagine how it can be fun (I dont think 60-250 would make a good fisheye

...

mutley · 01-23-2008, 11:44 PM

What's the default JPEG setting? Natural/bland, so reviewers can quickly dismiss the camera, and go on to the amazing Canon 7D at 3x the price?

lol101 · 01-23-2008, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by bt*ist

Thanks so much for your essay : every word was a joy to read.

And more than ANYTHING I can't wait to see non-numerical comparisons between this camera's IQ and that of Nikon/Canon. Forget Megapixels, forget frames per second. Sorry all you measurebaters out there, but let's have some photos of the same high-dynamic range subject on three 'equivalent' cameras and do a comparison that way. THAT'S what I want to see. Photography is Art, not Science. There is room for judgements as to 'beauty' as well. Somehow.

(All that said... I love my K10D and look forward to continued happy shooting with it for some time yet!)

Yep!

Can't wait to see how ths baby fares in the IQ dept.

leadbelly · 01-23-2008, 11:51 PM

Funny, I started reading this thread when it was 3 pages long. The pages added up as I read along...

Looks good, but I'll stick with my K10D for a while longer and spend my money on some good glass... If someone would sponsor me though, I'll take it!

clawhammer · 01-24-2008, 12:40 AM

Thanks for the preview, codiac. Now I can return to my normal LBA

If'n I had the money, I would. I have to agree that the tradeoff of AF/FPS for image quality was the right one. I think it shows that Pentax feels there are more portrait/landscape/macro/etc photographers using Pentax right now than there are sports/birding/etc photographers. Sure, they've gotta get a better AF system and faster FPS sometime down the road, but they're a small company (relatively speaking) and designing a brand new sensor isn't cheap or easy.

I'm wondering if the 645D is still 'shelved', or if it is going to make a reapperance as has been hinted...

Edvinas · 01-24-2008, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by lost

Wow, body only and $1299!?! More than I can do right now, so I may have to look at something else...Maybe I will wait for the K200, but I sure wanted to buy something sooner...

Get K10D until stock lasts. It's better camera than K200D. And cheaper.

mutley · 01-24-2008, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

Get K10D until stock lasts. It's better camera than K200D. And cheaper.

Interesting how the Canon XTi-2 specs compare to the K200D at that price point:

* 12.2 megapixel CMOS sensor
* SD/SDHC cards
* Larger viewfinder
* Live view mode, including contrast-detect AF
* Improved 9-point AF system
* Spot metering
* 3.0" LCD monitor
* Redesigned menus (including My Menu as seen in 40D)
* Slightly redesigned info display
* Continuous shooting at 3.5fps for up to 53 JPEG (6 RAW)
* ISO setting displays in viewfinder and ISO button
* New, larger, higher capacity battery
* 14 bit A/D converter and processing
* Multi-shot self-timer mode
* Highlight Tone Priority (from 40D)
* Auto Lighting Optimiser (boosts shadows after shooting)

01-23-2008, 10:47 PM	#141
bt*ist Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 211	Thanks so much for your essay : every word was a joy to read. Just wanted to check something. A Megapixel measurement is simply a width x height equation, right? So isn't 1.6 megapixels (checks internet) 1540 pixels x 1024 pixels... but in this case attached to a high-dslr-quality sensor rather than (say) a 5hitty sony ericsson mobile telephone's sensor? At 20fps that would be AWESOME : most of the photos I deal with are resized down for the web at 800x533pixels, which is perfectly adequate for standard-sized photos if not slightly bigger. And more than ANYTHING I can't wait to see non-numerical comparisons between this camera's IQ and that of Nikon/Canon. Forget Megapixels, forget frames per second. Sorry all you measurebaters out there, but let's have some photos of the same high-dynamic range subject on three 'equivalent' cameras and do a comparison that way. THAT'S what I want to see. Photography is Art, not Science. There is room for judgements as to 'beauty' as well. Somehow. (All that said... I love my K10D and look forward to continued happy shooting with it for some time yet!) Last edited by btist; 01-23-2008 at 10:53 PM.*

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01-23-2008, 09:31 PM	#136
Sleepy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Miami Photos: Gallery Posts: 133	Originally posted by rzarbo Chris, Being one of the soccer moms referred to in an earlier post I am very disappointed about the lack of improvement to the AF. It is my only complaint with the K10d. I am not a fan of Canon and I am not in the league of the d300 skillwise (a camera I have heard experienced d200 users call overwhelming and intimidating) so I was really hoping Pentax would come through for me. Same here. I think the features K20D has are great except for its AF. I really don't get it why Pentax wouldn't want to have the improved as well. However, since benjikan said the AF is faster and more accurate, let's wait the testing reports to see how the AF goes. Thanks for sharing all the info, codiac2600.

01-23-2008, 09:36 PM	#137
HawaiianOnline Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hawaii Posts: 613	Originally posted by Sleepy Same here. I think the features K20D has are great except for its AF. I really don't get it why Pentax wouldn't want to have the improved as well. However, since benjikan said the AF is faster and more accurate, let's wait the testing reports to see how the AF goes. Thanks for sharing all the info, codiac2600. Indeed. Although the embargo has ended, we won't know for sure until the professional measurebators (read reviewers and not certain shady characters) have at it. I for one will reserve judgement on it until after the in-depth reviews com out.

01-23-2008, 09:54 PM	#138
George Lama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Buffalo/Rochester, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133	Fantastic review - Thanks a lot! Lots of great features as expected. My K10D is ready to become the backup/second camera! The fact that all accessories except the battery are compatible is a definite plus! And the improvement in image IQ is something I certainly look forward to. Sadly AF isn't improved but if the IQ is indeed that improved, I'd rather deal with manual focusing anyway. For this camera, I might even consider trying out one of the split-prism focusing screens. Now all I need to do is collect enough aluminum cans and sell them at the recycling center before the camera hits the shelves. Yee shall be mine!

01-23-2008, 09:56 PM	#139
a a i b Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brooklyn Photos: Gallery Posts: 315	Well, I'm excited. The new camera seems poised to excell in low-light, and I've grown very fond of the K10D's form factor and ergonomics. Unless pictures out of the new camera really aren't an improvement over the K10D, I'll get one for sure. Thanks to Chris for the great write up.

01-23-2008, 10:08 PM	#140
raz-0 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Central NJ Posts: 470	I think it is a very sensible camera. It offers tempting improvements to a lot of people if not everyone. (higer resolution with less noise than K10D). It makes pentax much more viable for wedding and event photographers, which is important as they spend lots of money on gear fairly regularly. (increased dynamic range, less noise, and higher iso). It has features to make it attractive to landscape photographers. (extended dynamic range and increased resolution, timed exposures in camera) It has features to make it more attractive to macro photographers. (bf/FF correction, and I suspect manual focus works in live view) It has features to make it mor attractive to people doing the strobist type thing. (PC sync) All in it only seems to drop the ball for action photographers, and honestly you can take good action photos at 3fps too. At least there seem to be folks producing them. Most of the really spectacular shots from action photogs I have seen where I could ask questions have not been super machine gunny shots relying on quick af. Mostly they were prefocused and wait for the action to come to you. It looks cool. My photography budget for the next year is likely to be spent on lenses though, but that was a given regardless of how cool the k20D might have been.

01-23-2008, 11:04 PM	#142
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by bt*ist Thanks so much for your essay : every word was a joy to read. Just wanted to check something. A Megapixel measurement is simply a width x height equation, right? So isn't 1.6 megapixels (checks internet) 1540 pixels x 1024 pixels... This is exactly what I was thinking.

01-23-2008, 11:10 PM	#143
TFTM Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 36	Once more, thanks Chris for the review. My 2c on the K20D. For me its not quite earth shattering. I applaud the better IQ tweaks such as better ISO, dynamic range and such. On the other hand, the AF system, FPS and Sync Speed are disappointments. I know Pentax wanted to have something out there to stay competitive but these were also areas that needed improving upon just as much as IQ. For the Strobists, 1/180 sync is a bit low and just accepting the failings of the current AF system seems asinine. What good is my ISO 3200 if I can't focus on my subject when I need to use such a high sensitivity? That being said, the improvements that have been made are reason enough to get one; gotta start saving!

01-23-2008, 11:24 PM	#144
philmorley Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: in a house in Armidale, Australia Posts: 472	any idea how long the 60-250 has been pushed back? A 'fun' reason is intriquing, can't really imagine how it can be fun (I dont think 60-250 would make a good fisheye ...

01-23-2008, 11:44 PM	#145
mutley Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: LI, NY Posts: 313	What's the default JPEG setting? Natural/bland, so reviewers can quickly dismiss the camera, and go on to the amazing Canon 7D at 3x the price?

01-23-2008, 11:49 PM	#146
lol101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Garennes sur Eure France Photos: Gallery Posts: 899	Originally posted by bt*ist Thanks so much for your essay : every word was a joy to read. And more than ANYTHING I can't wait to see non-numerical comparisons between this camera's IQ and that of Nikon/Canon. Forget Megapixels, forget frames per second. Sorry all you measurebaters out there, but let's have some photos of the same high-dynamic range subject on three 'equivalent' cameras and do a comparison that way. THAT'S what I want to see. Photography is Art, not Science. There is room for judgements as to 'beauty' as well. Somehow. (All that said... I love my K10D and look forward to continued happy shooting with it for some time yet!) Yep! Can't wait to see how ths baby fares in the IQ dept.

01-23-2008, 11:51 PM	#147
leadbelly Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 597	Funny, I started reading this thread when it was 3 pages long. The pages added up as I read along... Looks good, but I'll stick with my K10D for a while longer and spend my money on some good glass... If someone would sponsor me though, I'll take it!

01-24-2008, 12:40 AM	#148
clawhammer Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Logan, Utah Photos: Gallery Posts: 971	Thanks for the preview, codiac. Now I can return to my normal LBA If'n I had the money, I would. I have to agree that the tradeoff of AF/FPS for image quality was the right one. I think it shows that Pentax feels there are more portrait/landscape/macro/etc photographers using Pentax right now than there are sports/birding/etc photographers. Sure, they've gotta get a better AF system and faster FPS sometime down the road, but they're a small company (relatively speaking) and designing a brand new sensor isn't cheap or easy. I'm wondering if the 645D is still 'shelved', or if it is going to make a reapperance as has been hinted...

01-24-2008, 01:08 AM	#149
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by lost Wow, body only and $1299!?! More than I can do right now, so I may have to look at something else...Maybe I will wait for the K200, but I sure wanted to buy something sooner... Get K10D until stock lasts. It's better camera than K200D. And cheaper.

01-24-2008, 01:27 AM	#150
mutley Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: LI, NY Posts: 313	Originally posted by Edvinas Get K10D until stock lasts. It's better camera than K200D. And cheaper. Interesting how the Canon XTi-2 specs compare to the K200D at that price point: * 12.2 megapixel CMOS sensor * SD/SDHC cards * Larger viewfinder * Live view mode, including contrast-detect AF * Improved 9-point AF system * Spot metering * 3.0" LCD monitor * Redesigned menus (including My Menu as seen in 40D) * Slightly redesigned info display * Continuous shooting at 3.5fps for up to 53 JPEG (6 RAW) * ISO setting displays in viewfinder and ISO button * New, larger, higher capacity battery * 14 bit A/D converter and processing * Multi-shot self-timer mode * Highlight Tone Priority (from 40D) * Auto Lighting Optimiser (boosts shadows after shooting)