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View Poll Results: What would you like to see in the final release of the K20D
Leave it at 20 fps in 1.6Mp mode 105.15%
Being able to adjust it between 20fps and 3 fps with a corresponding file increase 15881.44%
Disable this, its a useless gimmick 3115.98%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

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01-25-2008, 06:21 AM   #31
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Being able to do real 5-6FPS needs a redesigned shutter, a better continuos Af, and that would have priced this camera a lot more. I think what people wants is a more specced, more expensive camera. I don't know how many of them would buy it, though.

01-25-2008, 08:23 AM   #32
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this is all very simple:


if you are a professional that needed a fast FPS camera to do sports shots, you would have never bought into pentax in the first place

ergo, the general population of pentax owners are not people that shoot sports or other extreme speed activities PROFESSIONALY

if you ARE one those people, you are SILLY, and should not blame the next pentax camera for not building a feature which you lacked before, and were hoping would be corrected just so that you can finally compensate for your initial mistake of purchasing the wrong equipment for the job

ergo, no current pentax owner should really care how fast or slow the new camera will shoot

if you do, it is only to have a bigger flag to wave over the Canikon guys, and thats just silly.
01-25-2008, 08:35 AM   #33
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I'd like to refrain from requesting anything until I have seen images from this 20 fps shooting option taken with production firmware.
01-25-2008, 01:40 PM   #34
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I'd happily trade live view for better AF and frame rate myself. What attracted me to pentax was that the k10d was the price of an XTi with nearly the performance of a 30d and was weather sealed, now its more expensive than a 40d and half as fast (yes its got more mp, but that's useless to me). I had high hopes for this thing and unless it does something amazing like decent ISO 6400 it won't earn my dollars. The big strongpoint of the k10d for me was its price/performance ratio, but the k20 is worse than a canon in this respect I think. Perhaps come may k10's will be dirt cheap

01-25-2008, 04:20 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
this is all very simple:

(**snip**)

ergo, no current pentax owner should really care how fast or slow the new camera will shoot

if you do, it is only to have a bigger flag to wave over the Canikon guys, and thats just silly.
Indeed. And there's no excuse for Pentax to change over to CMOS sensors because a CCD is just fine...........wait..............

Lets try this again:

Pentax shooters couldn't possibly have any use for a weather sealed body.........

How about: There's no need to go beyond 6 megapixels because no-one's going to be printing anything beyond an 8x12...........

Nope....guess that one's out the window too.

What I find silly is these posts that say people who shoot with Pentax shouldn't now want any extra FPS or they shouldn't be shooting with Pentax.

Much like other stuff, progress happens - even with Pentax. And I somehow doubt that the people who are condemning those of us who want 5 or 6 FPS now will stand up later and denounce Pentax for moving forward when they do release a body that does do 5 or 6 fps. It's not a question of 'IF' pentax will up the AF and FPS. It's a question of "WHEN".
01-25-2008, 04:50 PM   #36
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oh oh...

deary me... here we go again...
01-25-2008, 05:45 PM   #37
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The math

QuoteOriginally posted by Tbear Quote
20 FPS at 1.6MP/frame is similar to what a modern camcorder can do
Having seen Live demos of those new AVCHD camcorders I disagree -- really bad quality when comparing against still photo quality such as delivered by a DSLR.

Here is what mathematically one should think is in the reach of a K20D irrespective of whether it makes sense or not:

- 1x1 pixel dot: 14.6 MP @ 2.2 fps (note that the spec actually says 3 fps)
- 2x2 pixel dot: 3.7 MP @ 8.9 fps (2344 x 1560)
- 3x3 pixel dot: 1.6 MP @ 20.0 fps (1562 x 1040, not yet 1080p)
- 4x4 pixel dot: 0.9 MP @ 35.6 fps (1172 x 780, close to 720p)
- 5x5 pixel dot: 0.6 MP @ 55.6 fps ( 937 x 624, still better than DVD)

The quality will heavily depend on whether the NxN pixels are summed up or if only 1 out of N^2 values is taken. In case the are summed up their sharpness and ISO characteristics would be outstanding.

Unfortunately, the K20D won't burst until meory card full or do contrast AF so the above is merely academix for the records. Still, I guess all 5 modes should be offered.
01-27-2008, 07:26 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andrew Faires Quote
Indeed. And there's no excuse for Pentax to change over to CMOS sensors because a CCD is just fine...........wait..............

Lets try this again:

Pentax shooters couldn't possibly have any use for a weather sealed body.........

How about: There's no need to go beyond 6 megapixels because no-one's going to be printing anything beyond an 8x12...........

Nope....guess that one's out the window too.

What I find silly is these posts that say people who shoot with Pentax shouldn't now want any extra FPS or they shouldn't be shooting with Pentax.

Much like other stuff, progress happens - even with Pentax. And I somehow doubt that the people who are condemning those of us who want 5 or 6 FPS now will stand up later and denounce Pentax for moving forward when they do release a body that does do 5 or 6 fps. It's not a question of 'IF' pentax will up the AF and FPS. It's a question of "WHEN".

okay... you COULD have had 6fps.. or 8, or maybe even 10

only you probably would have waited another 6 months or more for the development of said technology, and probably pay a ton more money.

during which time Canon and Nikon will step ahead of the game and deploy their brand new cameras, and then the K20D will no longer look like a good deal, and people like you, will once again complain that Pentax somehow lagged behind or "played catch up".

Pentax made a huge improvement in the most important device to any modern digital camera... THE DIGITAL ****ING SENSOR, the one thing that answers directly to image quality.

not to mention all the other great features that our cameras come with.

demanding more from Pentax shows a clear sign that you dont understand how research and development efforts work, the definition of time, demand, and supply constraints, and invisible corporate structure and marketing efforts needed to maintain a certain position in the world of digital photography.

and if YOU dont like it, go off and design your own camera and see how well you do.

01-27-2008, 09:47 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Unfortunately, the K20D won't burst until meory card full or do contrast AF so the above is merely academix for the records. Still, I guess all 5 modes should be offered.
I'm not sure what the issues are of offering all 5 modes, but I have thought that
an intermediate mode would be useful. I see the application in making short time lapse sequences to embed on web pages. You don't need motion picture speed because bandwidth issues usually keep that from working anyway, but a resolution that would appear as a 'quality image' on a computer screen which the user could either look at rapid fire
showing quasi motion, or individually and have them look nice --- would be a plus.
01-28-2008, 05:37 AM   #40
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Doesn't anyone manual focus any more?
01-28-2008, 05:48 AM   #41
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Someone has posted that according to Pentax the mirror mechanics is not up for more than 3 fps. So we shouldn't expect any of the desired modes - except we agree to shoot with LV only (mirror up all the time) - which would be acceptable for me. But I don't need more than 3 fps anyhow.
01-28-2008, 05:56 AM   #42
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[QUOTE=time-snaps;159828
Would love to see how many of you like an adjustable frame rate. Like something where we can increase the frame rate from between 20/sec at 1.6Mp all the way to 3/sec at 14.6 Mp. [/QUOTE]

That would only be possible in live-view, since the mirror-mechanism can't flip at speeds higher than 3 fps, and this also means - no af. So 5 fps in live-view without AF, is that what you want?
For more than 3 fps with AF, you need a new mirror mechanism in the camera. I don't believe it will come in a firmware update.
01-28-2008, 05:57 AM   #43
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Gooshin

"and if YOU dont like it, go off and design your own camera and see how well you do."

Real nice. Don't you realize comments like that put you in the same class as RH, but at the opposite end of the teeter-totter? You, I suppose, believe RH is an idiot because he is constantly posting about Pentax shortfalls. Those that believe Pentax can do no wrong are just as delusional.

Are you saying that it would have taken an enormous amount of time and some spectacular new technology to enable Pentax incorporating 5-6 FPS in the K20D, and that this would have the result of the camera costing "a ton more money"?

If that's the case Hoya should dump Pentax on Samsung right now.

"demanding more from Pentax shows a clear sign that you dont understand how research and development efforts work"

I don't recall anyone demanding anything. The fact is many, many long-time Pentax users (like myself) are disappointed that Pentax does not have the resources that would allow the production of a more competitive camera.

Like it or not, Pentax is in a precarious situation right now. If Samsung choses to undercut Pentax's prices (as seems to have happened already), reducing their profit margins to the point that Hoya is not happy, guess what will happen?
01-28-2008, 07:28 AM   #44
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I think a lot of the frustration by us old time Pentax users is that we were slightly deceived by some of the posters. Such comments as it's a Bomb, yes they have something for the sport and nature shooters, and many more hints that the K20 was faster and better than most of the competition. One poster even said it was only 1 frame slower than the competition. My self, like Tom and many others would pay for the improvements. Give me a Pentax camera with 5-6 fps , 250 sync speed and better af and I'll pay the same price as nikon d300 just so I can use my Pentax glass---Hear me Pentax?
01-28-2008, 08:01 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
and if YOU dont like it, go off and design your own camera and see how well you do.
Pardon me, but why so hostile?

The guy is just expressing an oppinion. Thats not a crime, is it?
I disagree with the guy. But, his points are perfectly valid.

Tim
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