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01-24-2008, 04:03 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
Oddly enough, Pentax included some of my suggestions...
Modesty personified...

01-24-2008, 04:22 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
*snip* Because it sells! *snip*
I agree with you on this one. More so than an upgraded AF and a higher FPS count, buyers would look at the MP count first. It's also a good mask for the lack of an AF/FPS upgrade, something Pentax/Samsung can now keep working on behind the scenes, while they prep for their next DSLRs.

I see Pentax getting pinched by the Hoya takeover, in terms of R&D time, so they picked one big feature to improve on, and they chose the sensor. They could have delayed the K20D until later when they finished up with R&D on AF, but that would mean lost sales to the 40D/D300/A700/E3, something Hoya wouldn't want. Hoya itself probably green-lighted releasing the K20D without AF/FPS improvements, and is banking on IQ and better high ISO performance to spell a difference between their camera and the competition.

A gutsy call, I must say, but I guess if I was running Pentax, and faced with the same situation, I would've called it the same way. Good call by Hoya/Pentax/Samsung.
01-24-2008, 07:32 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
But, how much per camera cost would be adding better predictive AF processing capability in the K20D? Doing this is more processing based, but faster low light AF might be more hardware based needing different sensors. Even with that, how much more per camera cost would it have added? Or maybe just a smaller improvement rather than absolutely no change at all?
While they have retained the same AF, it's also been said that it has been tweaked, so I'd think it's better to reserve judgement here until it's out instead of bashing it outright.
01-24-2008, 07:34 AM   #19
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Can someone link me to individual landscape images shot with the K20D? I can't seem to find any. Thanks.

01-24-2008, 09:57 AM   #20
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This is my first post here. Hi. I try to shoot artistic images, not kids playing soccer or birds in flight (fun as that is). Most of my shots are made using a tripod and with plenty of time to compose and adjust settings. I've been holding off buying my first DSLR for six months because IQ (at a reasonable price) means everything to me but everything out there has entailed compromises and all the movement in new models has seemed to be away from IQ toward more pixels and faster ops. I love the IQ of the 5D and think it beats anything under $4000 and/or anything under 2.5 lbs or so. I'd dive in but it has operational quirks and though the camera is affordable enough the full-frame sensor forces one to spend top dollar for the best glass. So I've been waiting for a "modern" DSLR with a good set of features but primarily with a real commitment to IQ. I've been using a bridge camera for a year and am happy enough with it under the philosophy that it's the photographer who makes art, not the camera. My stuff is so light that I can carry 24-1000mm (using conv. lenses) plus macro plus filters plus two external flashes around with me at all times. (All for a total investment under $700.) What I can't do is produce prints larger than 8x10 and even then only when everything is perfect. Noise is horrible. I hardly ever shoot at ISOs over 100! But what I can shoot is great for posting 1200x800 at Flickr. So why move from a $700 investment to a (roughly) $7,000 investment (including lenses and everything else) unless the plan is to produce high-quality large prints and perhaps sell a few to recoup some of that $7,000? That, in any case, is where my head is at. And so I am thrilled to see what Pentax has done here with the new K20D. Like LOL101 I might have been happier had they limited the pixel count and really gone for max IQ and low noise, but if printing large is your goal, there's also something to be said for resolution. So now what I want to know is just how good is the IQ of this camera. And that's why I registered here even though I own no Pentax equipment. If IQ is the calling card of the K20, then let's see how well Pentax has actually performed. I expect y'all to test the heck out of this, and to run as many head-to-head comparisons as you can. I am not too impressed with the IQ of the K10D. (Sorry!) How much better is the 20? Please: show me well-designed comparison tests that will answer that question. I know it's way to early for that to be possible, so I'll be back in March or whenever it is that the K20 starts shipping, pestering y'all for these tests.
01-24-2008, 03:07 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Modesty personified...
Well, I'm the squeaky wheel that you noticed, and tried to incessantly insult, dismiss, and shut down, so......yeah, it was worth saying that after all those attacks.
01-24-2008, 04:40 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
I agree with you on this one. More so than an upgraded AF and a higher FPS count, buyers would look at the MP count first. It's also a good mask for the lack of an AF/FPS upgrade, something Pentax/Samsung can now keep working on behind the scenes, while they prep for their next DSLRs.
Absolutely right. For most buyers, megapixels rule, while lightening fast AF and high frame rates are barely afterthoughts. Although I have my doubts about it, if IQ turns out to be markedly superior to what the competition offer, then the K20D should sell very nicely, indeed. We can only hope that formal testing and user reports will bear this out.

Rob
01-24-2008, 05:58 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
Well, I'm the squeaky wheel that you noticed, and tried to incessantly insult, dismiss, and shut down, so......yeah, it was worth saying that after all those attacks.
Yeah, but it might not be you who Pentax consulted with to include the suggestions you did. There are others who want some of the stuff you did. Just a thought.

01-24-2008, 07:30 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Originally Posted by mutley
>>Well, I'm the squeaky wheel that you noticed, and tried to incessantly insult, dismiss, and shut down, so......yeah, it was worth saying that after all those attacks.


Yeah, but it might not be you who Pentax consulted with to include the suggestions you did. There are others who want some of the stuff you did. Just a thought.


Nah, it was mutley personally. Go to the translated Pentax press release on the K20d, on the last page there's a footnote:

"... And we reserve the greatest thanks to the one person with the clearest vision, mutley, who resides primarily in an unappreciative online forum where his pragmatic, brilliant insights go largely un-thanked, but where many wordless lurkers linger daily to hear his words, the words of mutley, including the entire Pentax board of directors, and the Samsung engineering staff, and the Hoya CFO, who has travelled to the LI, NY in United States on several occasions to meet the one known as mutley, so his words could be known to a face."




.

Last edited by jsherman999; 01-24-2008 at 07:58 PM.
01-24-2008, 11:13 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Nah, it was mutley personally. Go to the translated Pentax press release on the K20d, on the last page there's a footnote:

"... [I][B]And we reserve the greatest thanks to the one person with the clearest vision, mutley,

.
Uhh...Not able to see a post in full irony mode?
01-24-2008, 11:14 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Yeah, but it might not be you who Pentax consulted with to include the suggestions you did. There are others who want some of the stuff you did. Just a thought.
I wasn't being serious. Just thought I'd clarify.

But, good ol' thibs always attacks me personally, though doesn't realize or care in the slightest that I've absolutely never, not once, attacked him...personally.

My original comment on the subject was the coincidence of some of the subjects I agreed with were actually implemented, not that I came up with them.

I was informed very clearly that any Pentax exec, or marketing employee who reads this forum has placed me in their ignore list early on, so how could I think I have even the slightest effect on anything?

Last edited by mutley; 01-24-2008 at 11:21 PM.
01-24-2008, 11:52 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mutley Quote
Uhh...Not able to see a post in full irony mode?
Just funnin', mutley. Ever forum needs characters like you to keep things interesting, stick around.




.
01-25-2008, 12:05 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Malango Quote
This is my first post here. Hi. I try to shoot artistic images, not kids playing soccer or birds in flight (fun as that is). Most of my shots are made using a tripod and with plenty of time to compose and adjust settings. I've been holding off buying my first DSLR for six months because IQ (at a reasonable price) means everything to me but everything out there has entailed compromises and all the movement in new models has seemed to be away from IQ toward more pixels and faster ops. I love the IQ of the 5D and think it beats anything under $4000 and/or anything under 2.5 lbs or so. I'd dive in but it has operational quirks and though the camera is affordable enough the full-frame sensor forces one to spend top dollar for the best glass. So I've been waiting for a "modern" DSLR with a good set of features but primarily with a real commitment to IQ. I've been using a bridge camera for a year and am happy enough with it under the philosophy that it's the photographer who makes art, not the camera. My stuff is so light that I can carry 24-1000mm (using conv. lenses) plus macro plus filters plus two external flashes around with me at all times. (All for a total investment under $700.) What I can't do is produce prints larger than 8x10 and even then only when everything is perfect. Noise is horrible. I hardly ever shoot at ISOs over 100! But what I can shoot is great for posting 1200x800 at Flickr. So why move from a $700 investment to a (roughly) $7,000 investment (including lenses and everything else) unless the plan is to produce high-quality large prints and perhaps sell a few to recoup some of that $7,000? That, in any case, is where my head is at. And so I am thrilled to see what Pentax has done here with the new K20D. Like LOL101 I might have been happier had they limited the pixel count and really gone for max IQ and low noise, but if printing large is your goal, there's also something to be said for resolution. So now what I want to know is just how good is the IQ of this camera. And that's why I registered here even though I own no Pentax equipment. If IQ is the calling card of the K20, then let's see how well Pentax has actually performed. I expect y'all to test the heck out of this, and to run as many head-to-head comparisons as you can. I am not too impressed with the IQ of the K10D. (Sorry!) How much better is the 20? Please: show me well-designed comparison tests that will answer that question. I know it's way to early for that to be possible, so I'll be back in March or whenever it is that the K20 starts shipping, pestering y'all for these tests.
I am definitely planning to test this camera wen I get it. IQ is top of my list as well, and also high ISO as I usually avoid flash even though I have several. I am first in line so should get one from the first shipment. At the moment they are stating early march, but maybe they surprise us by being early this time ;-) I will deinfitely post my findings and test shots when I have them unless enough people already have at that point.
01-25-2008, 02:44 AM   #29
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K20D is 14bit

PENTAX?????????????

It is in japanese
Just scroll down and you will see a part of 14bit A/D
01-25-2008, 03:00 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by wakaka90 Quote
K20D is 14bit

PENTAX?????????????

It is in japanese
Just scroll down and you will see a part of 14bit A/D

Yes, they reduced the 22 bit A/D to 14 bit, and made the specific decision to make the RAW files 12 bit instead of 14 bit that would have been more competitive.

Last edited by mutley; 01-26-2008 at 03:39 AM.
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