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01-24-2008, 01:44 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Clearly, Pentax has listened very carefully to their customers (see this thread for examples) in designing this camera.

But, as with everything in photography, they had to make compromises to come in at the price point they felt they needed to meet. Not having a high-resolution LCD and not providing a super burst rate (not that 3fps is really horrible) are things they had to compromise on.

The fact that they do provide a low-res burst mode at all demonstrates that they are listening. They just have to make choices.
Mmm they did listen ?
Ah of course ! The Dust removal wasn't that good on the K10D so on the K20D is it now super-the-duper ?
Ow yeah we have now AF back/front focus adjustments with a memory and normally accessible without a difficult trick like fw 1.10 on the K10D. That is in my opinion a great upgrade I hope for the K10D users that there will be a firmware update for them.

Ah and Pentax has listen to us with implementing a crippled Live View just like Canon did with their 40D ? And not like Nikon did with their D300 with contrast AF.
The PC-Socket is back from the 2003's in 2008 well that is a great 'improvement' which was not necessary if they didn't leave it out in the first place.
Mmm the lcd screen is bigger yes !

Mmm what other neat features are there ?
Ah higher ISO's, that's really great, but how is the quality ? We will see it in the near future when the big review sites has done their review with a production K20D.

Well Pentax has listen...but not very good in my opinion

01-24-2008, 01:46 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
First off, this isn't a whining thread about the K20D. It looks to be better than the K10D in one of that camera's weak points - the sensor. Good for Pentax, and I hope it sells like hotcakes.

But for those who think that a new sensor alone is innovative and/or groundbreaking - I couldn't disagree more. Here are some ideas that I think are truly innovative and groundbreaking - and I hope Pentax can do some of them.

(In no particular order.)
  • Partner with PocketWizards and build in PW-compatible wireless flash.
  • Mechanical coupling for M- and K-mount bayonet lenses. (Nikon's D2xx/D3xx series has this already, but it would be far more beneficial to the Pentax user IMO.)
  • A real, dedicated manual focus screen!
  • More sensitive (say, f/2) autofocus sensors. This would make the fast lenses less prone to AF failure without having to change the AF engine.
  • Less MP with HUGE pixels. Think about how bold Nikon was in keeping the D3 down to 12MP - how about Pentax using their new sensor technology to build a 10MP camera with a 6MP profile? Cool!)
  • Ability to add annotated audio. This is not intended as 'video' but rather a small mp3 file that you can record after the shot details of the shot. Kind of like a built-in notepad.

I'm sure others can add tremendously to this list. I even left off fanciful never-happen innovations like swappable lens mounts, allowing the use of other brand lenses. What do you say?
I think it is time forme to find another Pentax forum
01-24-2008, 01:52 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I'm not going to call any names or try to discredit people who would like a faster burst mode. But, this comment isn't really fair either. Clearly, Pentax has listened very carefully to their customers (see this thread for examples) in designing this camera.

But, as with everything in photography, they had to make compromises to come in at the price point they felt they needed to meet. Not having a high-resolution LCD and not providing a super burst rate (not that 3fps is really horrible) are things they had to compromise on.

The fact that they do provide a low-res burst mode at all demonstrates that they are listening. They just have to make choices.

Yes indeed. And some things - like the manual focus screen and the less megapixels - surely aren't going to generate a lot of marketing hype. So I'm happy that Pentax can make and sell a camera to many, even if it doesn't appeal very much to me.

There is an excellent list originally maintained by (I believe) Richard Day that collects opinions of many PDML users - it is a long, useful set of suggestions. They've been trickling in, although the K10D (a truly innovative camera IMO) met a lot on that list, and even came up with some unheard-of items like the different shooting modes.

One note on your list of what Pentax listened to - with filenames, I always thought the point of wanting to rename them was so that you could store the count past 10,000 images. I.e. name them PTX#####. I'm not sure if that is possible even in the K20D.
01-24-2008, 01:52 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I think it is time forme to find another Pentax forum
What do you mean?

01-24-2008, 02:07 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I think it is time forme to find another Pentax forum
01-24-2008, 02:35 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Priyantha Bleeker Quote
Well Pentax has listen...but not very good in my opinion
Yeah, sure.
No matter what Pentax does, some people won't be happy.

So now Pentax listens and give you 5fps, 1/8000 s shutter speed, 1/250 x-sync, super fast AF and charge you D300 price. Would you pay for that? Or how many people would pay for that? Many would start complaining the price!

Geez.
01-24-2008, 02:51 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Yeah, sure.
No matter what Pentax does, some people won't be happy.

So now Pentax listens and give you 5fps, 1/8000 s shutter speed, 1/250 x-sync, super fast AF and charge you D300 price. Would you pay for that? Or how many people would pay for that? Many would start complaining the price!

Geez.
Yes I would yes !
Of course it would be nice to see than also the Aperture coupler back, just like Nikon also does with the Dxxx models and their D2 and D3 series

And yes I am willing to pay the price of the D300 for a comparable Pentax.
Why not ? The camera is than comparable, and has even functions which the Nikon lacks
01-24-2008, 02:55 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I agree it's unlikely. But a whole lot could be done with a closed firmware with an open scripting API, especially if it had hooks for replacing the metering program, adjusting JPEG properties, redefining buttons and menus, etc. Maybe even something which let one get at the RAW sensor data.

Was just thinking the same thing, although I suspect that there would be fewer things that could be done than with, say, and iphone API, because anything really significant beyond fun little tweaks would require some deep knowledge of optics, image processing, and specialized areas like that.

But it would be nice to have the opportunity to learn that stuff through an API, huh?


.

01-24-2008, 03:03 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Was just thinking the same thing, although I suspect that there would be fewer things that could be done than with, say, and iphone API, because anything really significant beyond fun little tweaks would require some deep knowledge of optics, image processing, and specialized areas like that.
I wouldn't mind running UFRaw on my camera.

I wonder what would happen if someone made an open platform on which either open source code or binary applications could run. Ideally, a cross-camera standard (hey, while we're dreaming), so you could buy Bibble or Capture One or Lightzone or what-have-you, all designed to work as the in-camera JPEG engine. (Including RAW+JPEG, of course.)
01-24-2008, 04:42 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I wouldn't mind running UFRaw on my camera.

I wonder what would happen if someone made an open platform on which either open source code or binary applications could run. Ideally, a cross-camera standard (hey, while we're dreaming), so you could buy Bibble or Capture One or Lightzone or what-have-you, all designed to work as the in-camera JPEG engine. (Including RAW+JPEG, of course.)
Would be fun
But I don't want to know the weight of battery pack needed to get enough processor power crammed in the camera
Quality RAW conversion is somewhat slow even on fast computers.
01-24-2008, 06:09 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by JMS Quote
Unfortunately I don't think we're getting the aperture coupler back. CMIIW, but I believe the aperture coupler goes in the same place as the SDM contacts.
Sorry, it's the first time I've seen the acronym CMIIW. Anyone care to enlighten me what it means?

QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
No, the SDM contacts take the place of the old Power Zoom contacts. Power Zoom is truly a defunct feature, but aperture coupling isn't.

The aperture coupling was done by a mechanical lever on the right side of the K mount (it the camera is facing you.)

It was great, as it lets you use M and K lenses without stopping down, plus the camera knows what ap the shot was taken at and can write it on the EXIF data.

I don't know why they canned it. Probably to save weight.
Here's a conspiracy theory: Pentax engineers might have wanted to put it in, but past Pentax management/Hoya didn't want it back in, if only because it might cut sales of new lenses somehow. The happy compromise (so as not to irritate those with a good collection of K/M lenses and because the lens line itself is quite limited with the discontinuation of the F/FA line) was the crippled mount.

That said, I also want the non-crippled mount back. That would be really great.

QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
YES!!

What a great idea, this is truly innovative. I had this idea for expired products, like somehow making the *ist D/DS/DL firmware available for update in open source software. This would be a cult hit, for sure.

BTW, some Canon users figured out how to hack into some of their firmware and added abilities that weren't originally there. I think they added RAW capture to certain digicams among other things.
If Pentax grows in user-base, we might have some adventuring souls who might try to hack the Pentax firmware.

QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I'm not going to call any names or try to discredit people who would like a faster burst mode. But, this comment isn't really fair either. Clearly, Pentax has listened very carefully to their customers (see this thread for examples) in designing this camera.

But, as with everything in photography, they had to make compromises to come in at the price point they felt they needed to meet. Not having a high-resolution LCD and not providing a super burst rate (not that 3fps is really horrible) are things they had to compromise on.

The fact that they do provide a low-res burst mode at all demonstrates that they are listening. They just have to make choices.
Agreed. With limited R&D time, resources, and the competition releasing new cameras, they chose to improve on the sensor over AF.
01-24-2008, 06:32 PM   #27
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Kodak also did the PW thing, as an optional extension, adding an antennae to the body.
01-24-2008, 08:48 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ricardobeat Quote
No one is listening! This from pentaximaging.com:

Type/construction - Pentax KAF2 bayonet stainless steel mount;
Usable lenses - Pentax KAF2, KAF, and KA (K mount, 35mm screwmount, 645/67 med format useable w/ adapter and/or restrictions);
SDM function - YES;
Power zoom function - YES
Ah. Yes, I can see how the SDM contacts work, as they merely supply and regulate power for a motor in the lens - the same as the Power Zoom.

Ok, now for the Aperture coupler:

You'll here the K mounts on the digitals referred to as "crippled" - ie, "Crippled" KAF, "Crippled" KAF2. Pentax didn't name these - no company would label something crippled, even if they had a marketing department as small as Pentax (*runs*) - it's in Pentax's best interest to let people think the K-D series and *ist series to let customers think that it's a full-blown KAF or KAF2. See here: Pentax K mount - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't know if the K20D or K200D has the uncrippled mount. I doubt it.
01-24-2008, 08:56 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Yeah, sure.
No matter what Pentax does, some people won't be happy.

So now Pentax listens and give you 5fps, 1/8000 s shutter speed, 1/250 x-sync, super fast AF and charge you D300 price. Would you pay for that? Or how many people would pay for that? Many would start complaining the price!

Geez.
I think a lot of people would buy it, it is what an awful lot of people have been asking for, even with the sony 12mp sensor rather than the 14mp. I also think it would sell better than k20d (even though the k20d will do what I want.)

I also think Pentax could release it happily now and have both k20 and "faster" camera on the market at the same time. Pentax really need to address more segments of the market, keeping your old customers is just as important as getting new ones.

Personally I am happy (not that I've used the 20d yet) with their cameras. I am not someone who asked for high fps and new af etc etc, but I think pentax listened to their marketing dept and them only. all we have heard for the past couple of years is more speed, better af, aperature coupling, they answered with a new sensor and firmware tweaks that should have been in the k10d and cost them nothing. With the way they decide which lenses etc etc to put out I dont think they listen.

Phil
01-24-2008, 08:59 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote

snip

If Pentax grows in user-base, we might have some adventuring souls who might try to hack the Pentax firmware.

.
someone hacked the k10d firmware and modified the language to their native language. It was on dpreview. He was absolutely blasted to the point of people sending me hate mail etc for how could you do such a thing to pentax etc you'd have thought he was an international terrorist the way people carried on.

hmmm.... but then say you're not happy with k20d and see what happens
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