I'd like to talk about K200D weakness

rvannatta · 01-25-2008, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by ogl

1. kit lense of Pentax is not weather sealed, rest DA* weather sealed lenses are too expensive for amateurs. it's good feature, but it's useless without the same lenses.
2. it's not important. I use only RAW
3. it's funny - what about a lot users who never use M lenses?

450D has battery grip with two types of power, for example.
I don't understand why to launch new camera instead of keep producing K10D which much better.
They could make some changes inside and launch K10D super. It has more sense.

Exactly one reason---- sell it cheaper. my take on the K200 is that it is mostly a down market K10. the longer term news is that if they can ultimately make the 14mp sensor as cheap
as they can buy the 10 mp sensor, a possibility since the 14mp is now 'in the family' for manufacturing purposes, it would make perfect sense to drop the 14 mp sensor in thier
down market camera as well as the flagship.

Andreas · 01-25-2008, 09:03 AM

It's indeed a good move that they put in Lithium batteries instead of the alkaline ones. The alkaline batteries caused biased opinions for no reason.
For the rest it's mainly about positioning this camera well below the K20D I believe. But it's odd that it's a downgrade from the K10D, for a higher price. I think we will soon see a "K200D Super", or a "K10D Classic".

Fototim · 01-25-2008, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by ogl

1. kit lense of Pentax is not weather sealed, rest DA* weather sealed lenses are too expensive for amateurs. it's good feature, but it's useless without the same lenses.

I tend to disagre. This is like claiming there is no use in using a rain coat without water tight shoes. You do get wet at your feets, yes, But your body stays dry.

I live in the western part of Norway. I have used my K10D in almost any weather condition with standard lenses. No problem, what so ever. YMMV
The body stays dry inside. And that is where the sensitive electronic is.

Tim

SpecialK · 01-25-2008, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by ogl

K200D has really small buffer for DSLR of 2008 year.

It's really BIG MINUS.
Canon 450D is MORE attractive camera with price just 100 USD higher.
Canon EOS 450D / Rebel XSi: what's changed: Digital Photography Review
Ugly back side with 3" LCD

, but it's really power machine with a lot of new features and new battery grip.
K200D is too simple. I'm disappointed.

Then don't buy it.

jsherman999 · 01-25-2008, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by Edvinas

Also Alfisti on the other forum noticed very precisely: noisy and slow AF on K200D (showrooms usually are not lit well) will scare away 9 out of 10 potential buyers towards absolutely silent Nikon D40x-es and Canon 450D-s

I'm not so sure about that... Last year, after getting down to the XTi or D40, I went into the store intending to finalize my research with a hands-on. I happened to play with the K100D when I was in there, and then left without buying anything to research the K100D - it just felt so much better, seemed more expensive - and I saw the benefits of the shake reduction with the first shot I took.

I decided to get the K100D a few days later after some research, after not even considering it prior to that in-store visit.

Now, if the Canon will have SR in the kit lens, that's a very good thing for in-store demos, but unless they really upgraded the build, etc, the in-store experience will probably still favor the K200D. Take it from me, it stands up very well when you've stood there handling both side by side.

.

Ramitt · 01-25-2008, 10:03 PM

I will tell you OGL, I just bought a k100d super over a k10d partly because of the smaller size. Your needs do not represent everyone's. The k200d will meet many peoples, even if not yours, get over it.

ogl · 01-26-2008, 04:12 AM

What to buy? I want 10 MP small camera with pentaprism and good buffer for my Pentax lenses.
K20D...maybe...But it's bigger and heavier. K20D is very interesting and strong machine.
K200D is old chassis camera. All is thru Fn and Menu button.

((
No choice at all again. K100D super has no AF adjustment menu and if we compare with ist DS,
DS is better in some ways.
I hate the grip of 100/110D. I'm happy that K200D has better grip for me, but I know how slow K100D writes files on card...I think that K200D too.

If Pentax puts pentaprism and 6 RAW buffer in K200D I would buy...
But Pentax didn't do it. I must use ist DS again... It's nonsense. Pentax has no low-end camera with good buffer for several years. It's absurd.

*isteve · 01-26-2008, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by ogl

What to buy? I want 10 MP small camera with pentaprism and good buffer for my Pentax lenses.
K20D...maybe...But it's bigger and heavier. K20D is very interesting and strong machine.
K200D is old chassis camera. All is thru Fn and Menu button.

((
No choice at all again. K100D super has no AF adjustment menu and if we compare with ist DS,
DS is better in some ways.
I hate the grip of 100/110D. I'm happy that K200D has better grip for me, but I know how slow K100D writes files on card...I think that K200D too.

If Pentax puts pentaprism and 6 RAW buffer in K200D I would buy...
But Pentax didn't do it. I must use ist DS again... It's nonsense. Pentax has no low-end camera with good buffer for several years. It's absurd.

For heavens sake go and try one out instead of reading spec sheets. The buffer does not stop when its full it just slows down to around 1.9 fps if I remember. I have no idea about AF speed, but there is no way it can be slower than the Ds - not possible!

offertonhatter · 01-26-2008, 06:02 AM

The DS is increadibly slow, I can't believe how much faster the K10D is over it. I still like my *ISTds but my K10D is better. However as a backup body the DS is fine, just a shame about its AF speed. I wonder why Pentax have two different AF speeds?

In the end though it is IQ that matters, and both have good IQ's

Mike Cash · 01-26-2008, 06:45 AM

The way so many people bitch in the these threads is enough to make you think they already actually have the cameras in their hands. From only reading threads from after the announcement, the casual observer would never guess the K20D and K200D are like Ronco products.....not available in stores.

ogl · 01-26-2008, 06:48 AM

Anybody know if there is AF menu in K200D? If there is, I can forgive small buffer.

offertonhatter · 01-26-2008, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by Mike Cash

The way so many people bitch in the these threads is enough to make you think they already actually have the cameras in their hands. From only reading threads from after the announcement, the casual observer would never guess the K20D and K200D are like Ronco products.....not available in stores.

I agree, I don't bitch about products not in my hand, but having experience from both my Pentax DSLR's and know their limitations, I just hope that Pentax use the faster af from the K10D in the K200D, rather than the DS clones, as the DS is woefully slow.

The K200D does appeal, as does the K20D, the K200D could be a perfect backup body for my K10D, unless I go for the K20D. If I go the K200D route, then I hope the AF issue is resolved. But only after handling one then I can make on objective decision.

I am going to the PMA show in Birmingham at the end of Feb, so will have an opportunity to handle both the new cameras (along with excellent range of new lenses)

Richard Day · 01-26-2008, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by offertonhatter

I agree, I don't bitch about products not in my hand, but having experience from both my Pentax DSLR's and know their limitations, I just hope that Pentax use the faster af from the K10D in the K200D, rather than the DS clones, as the DS is woefully slow.

The K200D does appeal, as does the K20D, the K200D could be a perfect backup body for my K10D, unless I go for the K20D. If I go the K200D route, then I hope the AF issue is resolved. But only after handling one then I can make on objective decision.

I am going to the PMA show in Birmingham at the end of Feb, so will have an opportunity to handle both the new cameras (along with excellent range of new lenses)

AFAIK, Pentax themselves will not be at Focus 2008 in Birmingham in Feb. A few dealers may be there with Pentax products, but they are unlikely to be the new items.

I agree that it's a shame that UK users will not have the opportunity to try the new stuff, but Focus has become more of a boot sale dealer bazaar (garage sale) rather than a serious trade show over the last few years and maybe that's the reason I believe that Pentax are not there. Last year even Canon weren't showing, but they are this year, maybe Pentax may have a lst minute change of heart, but maybe all the space is taken.

It may well be that something can be arranged via the Pentax User magazine (ePhotoZine) people as we did for a couple of days last year. I will keep people updated.

RMabo · 01-26-2008, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by offertonhatter

However as a backup body the DS is fine, just a shame about its AF speed. I wonder why Pentax have two different AF speeds?

The K10D has a stronger/faster motor. The *ist DS has a weaker motor. Why? It is called money!

The K10D also has more power thank's to the batteries - a more stable power supply.
Try out CR-V3 batteries in the *ist DS, it is like pressing a "turbo" button.

AA rechargeables - slow, slow. The *ist DS is very sensitive to the batteries in use, a drawback with using AA batteries.
The K200D is said to have more efficient power management, so perhaps K200D does not have this issue. Don't know.

But, one interresting thing here.
Samsung has not released plans for a Samsung GX-2 (replacement for GX-1S/GX-1L, their version of K200D). So it seems like they will continue selling the GX-10 (K10D) as their "entry level"-alternative.

ricardobeat · 01-26-2008, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Anybody know if there is AF menu in K200D? If there is, I can forgive small buffer.

You know, I kept listening to all these folks talking about front-focusing, back-focusing and stuff. Tests, tests, comparisons, AF adjustments..

So I decided to do my own testing. Made an angled board with a scale printed on it to check the DOF and focus point. I wasn't able to find a SINGLE lens that 7front or back-focused. Both my cameras' AF is set to 0 on the debug menu. I do get many bad focused shots, but I'm pretty convinced it's all my own fault. All the lenses focused perfectly at different focal lenghts and apertures, not one single problem:

DA 18-55
Sigma 17-70
Sigma 10-20
SA 50-200
M 50 1.7
A 28 2.8
Takumar 135 2.5

The SA 50-200 was absolutely spot on within 1mm at 200mm, subject at 2-3m.

Am I lucky? I'm sure i'm not. I think some folks are too worried about pixel-peeping and forget to pay attention on what they are doing while the camera is in their hands.

Go take some pictures. How many shots have you actually lost because of the buffer?

01-25-2008, 10:03 PM	#21
Ramitt Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bloomington, IN Posts: 36	I will tell you OGL, I just bought a k100d super over a k10d partly because of the smaller size. Your needs do not represent everyone's. The k200d will meet many peoples, even if not yours, get over it. Last edited by Ramitt; 01-25-2008 at 10:46 PM.

01-26-2008, 08:14 AM	#28
Richard Day Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Gloucester UK Posts: 441	Pentax not at Focus 2008 (UK) in Feb Originally posted by offertonhatter I agree, I don't bitch about products not in my hand, but having experience from both my Pentax DSLR's and know their limitations, I just hope that Pentax use the faster af from the K10D in the K200D, rather than the DS clones, as the DS is woefully slow. The K200D does appeal, as does the K20D, the K200D could be a perfect backup body for my K10D, unless I go for the K20D. If I go the K200D route, then I hope the AF issue is resolved. But only after handling one then I can make on objective decision. I am going to the PMA show in Birmingham at the end of Feb, so will have an opportunity to handle both the new cameras (along with excellent range of new lenses) AFAIK, Pentax themselves will not be at Focus 2008 in Birmingham in Feb. A few dealers may be there with Pentax products, but they are unlikely to be the new items. I agree that it's a shame that UK users will not have the opportunity to try the new stuff, but Focus has become more of a boot sale dealer bazaar (garage sale) rather than a serious trade show over the last few years and maybe that's the reason I believe that Pentax are not there. Last year even Canon weren't showing, but they are this year, maybe Pentax may have a lst minute change of heart, but maybe all the space is taken. It may well be that something can be arranged via the Pentax User magazine (ePhotoZine) people as we did for a couple of days last year. I will keep people updated. Last edited by Richard Day; 01-26-2008 at 08:15 AM. Reason: missed a word

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01-25-2008, 08:48 AM	#16
rvannatta Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Apiary, Oregon Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,181	Originally posted by ogl 1. kit lense of Pentax is not weather sealed, rest DA* weather sealed lenses are too expensive for amateurs. it's good feature, but it's useless without the same lenses. 2. it's not important. I use only RAW 3. it's funny - what about a lot users who never use M lenses? 450D has battery grip with two types of power, for example. I don't understand why to launch new camera instead of keep producing K10D which much better. They could make some changes inside and launch K10D super. It has more sense. Exactly one reason---- sell it cheaper. my take on the K200 is that it is mostly a down market K10. the longer term news is that if they can ultimately make the 14mp sensor as cheap as they can buy the 10 mp sensor, a possibility since the 14mp is now 'in the family' for manufacturing purposes, it would make perfect sense to drop the 14 mp sensor in thier down market camera as well as the flagship.

01-25-2008, 09:03 AM	#17
Andreas Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 75	It's indeed a good move that they put in Lithium batteries instead of the alkaline ones. The alkaline batteries caused biased opinions for no reason. For the rest it's mainly about positioning this camera well below the K20D I believe. But it's odd that it's a downgrade from the K10D, for a higher price. I think we will soon see a "K200D Super", or a "K10D Classic".

01-25-2008, 05:21 PM	#18
Fototim Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 268	Originally posted by ogl 1. kit lense of Pentax is not weather sealed, rest DA* weather sealed lenses are too expensive for amateurs. it's good feature, but it's useless without the same lenses. I tend to disagre. This is like claiming there is no use in using a rain coat without water tight shoes. You do get wet at your feets, yes, But your body stays dry. I live in the western part of Norway. I have used my K10D in almost any weather condition with standard lenses. No problem, what so ever. YMMV The body stays dry inside. And that is where the sensitive electronic is. Tim

01-25-2008, 08:13 PM	#19
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,481	Originally posted by ogl K200D has really small buffer for DSLR of 2008 year. It's really BIG MINUS. Canon 450D is MORE attractive camera with price just 100 USD higher. Canon EOS 450D / Rebel XSi: what's changed: Digital Photography Review Ugly back side with 3" LCD , but it's really power machine with a lot of new features and new battery grip. K200D is too simple. I'm disappointed. Then don't buy it.

01-25-2008, 09:52 PM	#20
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by Edvinas Also Alfisti on the other forum noticed very precisely: noisy and slow AF on K200D (showrooms usually are not lit well) will scare away 9 out of 10 potential buyers towards absolutely silent Nikon D40x-es and Canon 450D-s I'm not so sure about that... Last year, after getting down to the XTi or D40, I went into the store intending to finalize my research with a hands-on. I happened to play with the K100D when I was in there, and then left without buying anything to research the K100D - it just felt so much better, seemed more expensive - and I saw the benefits of the shake reduction with the first shot I took. I decided to get the K100D a few days later after some research, after not even considering it prior to that in-store visit. Now, if the Canon will have SR in the kit lens, that's a very good thing for in-store demos, but unless they really upgraded the build, etc, the in-store experience will probably still favor the K200D. Take it from me, it stands up very well when you've stood there handling both side by side. .

01-26-2008, 04:12 AM	#22
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382 Original Poster	What to buy? I want 10 MP small camera with pentaprism and good buffer for my Pentax lenses. K20D...maybe...But it's bigger and heavier. K20D is very interesting and strong machine. K200D is old chassis camera. All is thru Fn and Menu button. (( No choice at all again. K100D super has no AF adjustment menu and if we compare with ist DS, DS is better in some ways. I hate the grip of 100/110D. I'm happy that K200D has better grip for me, but I know how slow K100D writes files on card...I think that K200D too. If Pentax puts pentaprism and 6 RAW buffer in K200D I would buy... But Pentax didn't do it. I must use ist DS again... It's nonsense. Pentax has no low-end camera with good buffer for several years. It's absurd.

01-26-2008, 05:11 AM	#23
*isteve Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 1,187	Originally posted by ogl What to buy? I want 10 MP small camera with pentaprism and good buffer for my Pentax lenses. K20D...maybe...But it's bigger and heavier. K20D is very interesting and strong machine. K200D is old chassis camera. All is thru Fn and Menu button. (( No choice at all again. K100D super has no AF adjustment menu and if we compare with ist DS, DS is better in some ways. I hate the grip of 100/110D. I'm happy that K200D has better grip for me, but I know how slow K100D writes files on card...I think that K200D too. If Pentax puts pentaprism and 6 RAW buffer in K200D I would buy... But Pentax didn't do it. I must use ist DS again... It's nonsense. Pentax has no low-end camera with good buffer for several years. It's absurd. For heavens sake go and try one out instead of reading spec sheets. The buffer does not stop when its full it just slows down to around 1.9 fps if I remember. I have no idea about AF speed, but there is no way it can be slower than the Ds - not possible!

01-26-2008, 06:02 AM	#24
offertonhatter Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: North West UK Posts: 390	The DS is increadibly slow, I can't believe how much faster the K10D is over it. I still like my *ISTds but my K10D is better. However as a backup body the DS is fine, just a shame about its AF speed. I wonder why Pentax have two different AF speeds? In the end though it is IQ that matters, and both have good IQ's

01-26-2008, 06:45 AM	#25
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	The way so many people bitch in the these threads is enough to make you think they already actually have the cameras in their hands. From only reading threads from after the announcement, the casual observer would never guess the K20D and K200D are like Ronco products.....not available in stores.

01-26-2008, 06:48 AM	#26
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382 Original Poster	Anybody know if there is AF menu in K200D? If there is, I can forgive small buffer.

01-26-2008, 07:15 AM	#27
offertonhatter Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: North West UK Posts: 390	Originally posted by Mike Cash The way so many people bitch in the these threads is enough to make you think they already actually have the cameras in their hands. From only reading threads from after the announcement, the casual observer would never guess the K20D and K200D are like Ronco products.....not available in stores. I agree, I don't bitch about products not in my hand, but having experience from both my Pentax DSLR's and know their limitations, I just hope that Pentax use the faster af from the K10D in the K200D, rather than the DS clones, as the DS is woefully slow. The K200D does appeal, as does the K20D, the K200D could be a perfect backup body for my K10D, unless I go for the K20D. If I go the K200D route, then I hope the AF issue is resolved. But only after handling one then I can make on objective decision. I am going to the PMA show in Birmingham at the end of Feb, so will have an opportunity to handle both the new cameras (along with excellent range of new lenses)

01-26-2008, 08:33 AM	#29
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	Originally posted by offertonhatter However as a backup body the DS is fine, just a shame about its AF speed. I wonder why Pentax have two different AF speeds? The K10D has a stronger/faster motor. The ist DS has a weaker motor. Why? It is called money! The K10D also has more power thank's to the batteries - a more stable power supply. Try out CR-V3 batteries in the ist DS, it is like pressing a "turbo" button. AA rechargeables - slow, slow. The *ist DS is very sensitive to the batteries in use, a drawback with using AA batteries. The K200D is said to have more efficient power management, so perhaps K200D does not have this issue. Don't know. But, one interresting thing here. Samsung has not released plans for a Samsung GX-2 (replacement for GX-1S/GX-1L, their version of K200D). So it seems like they will continue selling the GX-10 (K10D) as their "entry level"-alternative.

01-26-2008, 09:45 AM	#30
ricardobeat Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Brazil Posts: 376	Originally posted by ogl Anybody know if there is AF menu in K200D? If there is, I can forgive small buffer. You know, I kept listening to all these folks talking about front-focusing, back-focusing and stuff. Tests, tests, comparisons, AF adjustments.. So I decided to do my own testing. Made an angled board with a scale printed on it to check the DOF and focus point. I wasn't able to find a SINGLE lens that 7front or back-focused. Both my cameras' AF is set to 0 on the debug menu. I do get many bad focused shots, but I'm pretty convinced it's all my own fault. All the lenses focused perfectly at different focal lenghts and apertures, not one single problem: DA 18-55 Sigma 17-70 Sigma 10-20 SA 50-200 M 50 1.7 A 28 2.8 Takumar 135 2.5 The SA 50-200 was absolutely spot on within 1mm at 200mm, subject at 2-3m. Am I lucky? I'm sure i'm not. I think some folks are too worried about pixel-peeping and forget to pay attention on what they are doing while the camera is in their hands. Go take some pictures. How many shots have you actually lost because of the buffer?