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03-26-2008, 09:59 AM   #31
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Hi Richard, shots taken with and without DR in .DNG are both in the 23meg range.

FWIW, after getting used to what I see on the screen I'm very comfortable that the K20D is fine without DR. After trying it out in various circumstances, I've always come to the conclusion I'm better off without it. You gain some trace contrast enhancement but with the added appearance of at least one stop (or two) worth of ISO noise and a yellowish hue. If you do no PP, and are shooting in good light and can use DR on ISO 200, then DR will give you that trace contrast boost. Other than that, its a wash. It sounded good on paper and it was one of the reasons I bought in. To counter, I will happily state that I've learned the extra resolution, added ISO performance and (to my eyes) more realistic color (better WB on average) make the K20 a fine and worthy camera that I am proud to own. Just pretend DR isn't even there if you ask me.

03-26-2008, 10:13 AM   #32
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I don't find all the threads where EDR has been discussed already.

I came to the following preliminary conclusion, as far as RAW is concerned:


EDR makes the camera go down internally in ISO by 1 step (w/o telling you and w/o using it in its exposure readings).


So, you got 1 EV more headroom in the highlights and probably more noise in the shadows (because it is actually underexposed).


That's about it. It is backed by Gordon's K20D 16Bit histogram study found somewhere in the net and nobody except Chasseur d'Images relates it to some magic 14Bit engine.

Of course, there may be more magic for out-of-camera JPEGs, such as an improved tone mapping.
03-27-2008, 02:42 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by thePiRaTE!! Quote
Hi Richard, shots taken with and without DR in .DNG are both in the 23meg range.

FWIW, after getting used to what I see on the screen I'm very comfortable that the K20D is fine without DR. After trying it out in various circumstances, I've always come to the conclusion I'm better off without it. You gain some trace contrast enhancement but with the added appearance of at least one stop (or two) worth of ISO noise and a yellowish hue. If you do no PP, and are shooting in good light and can use DR on ISO 200, then DR will give you that trace contrast boost. Other than that, its a wash. It sounded good on paper and it was one of the reasons I bought in. To counter, I will happily state that I've learned the extra resolution, added ISO performance and (to my eyes) more realistic color (better WB on average) make the K20 a fine and worthy camera that I am proud to own. Just pretend DR isn't even there if you ask me.
That would suggest that the files are not 14 bit in DNG, it would be as well to check to see if there is a difference with the same scene in PEF. I suspect that there won't be any difference worth mentioning.

FWIW, the DNG shots from the K20D are uncompressed 12 bit files and are usually 23.2MB (a 14 bit file would be significantly larger). If you convert a PEF to DNG in Pentax Photobrowser, it produces a 16 bit DNG file where the unused 4 bits are not discarded, as in the "in-camera" DNG's, those files are in the region of 30.5MB, I would guess that if the files were 14 bit they would be in the region of 27MB each.

This indicates that the information from the CI review is incorrect. I am awaiting verification from my sources.
03-30-2008, 01:27 AM   #34
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It may also be 14bit at the sensor output and scaled down to 12bit in file output.
I dunno if it makes any sense but it is very doable IMO. The supposedly did 22bit to 12bit in the K10D, why no 14bit to 12bit ?

03-30-2008, 08:09 AM   #35
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Tried PEF mode and something interesting happened. The non-DR shot was 14,599 kb. The shot with DR on was 12,549 kb. Upon importing into Lightroom 1.4, they were converted into DNGs which measured - non-DR 12,932 kb and DR-on 11,438 kb

They shrunk. Out of curiosity, here are the snap shots. They are a bit small as jpgs to really note the increase in noise, but you can see it on the facing side of the speaker, even small (ISO 800). One can note the trace contrast boost for better or worse in the speakers face (along with the yellowish hue). The reduced flash signature on the can may possibly also attributed to the wider range of highs in DR mode, or perhaps the angle being slightly askew of the original shot, hard to say. The shots were only resized as jpgs, lens used was 31 ltd.

OFF-


ON-



EDIT - I would be curious to learn why the in-camera DNGs are literally double the size of PEFs converted to DNGs, both were exported in adobeRGB. Anyone?

Last edited by thePiRaTE!!; 03-30-2008 at 08:18 AM.
03-30-2008, 08:22 AM   #36
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The EDR mode has a specific time to use it guys...

The EDR works in two ways one is it will not allow the K20D to over expose and will push the highlights as far right as they will go without over exposing. They also enhance how much headroom you have in the highlights.

When should I use the EDR mode? When you're battling highlight clipping in an over contrasted scene. I'm seeing a lot of rooms and objects that are all of one tone trying to show off the EDR which is pointless. Go shoot a dog in the snow with it on and off... like these:

Off: Snow almost completely blown out


On: Not a single blown highlight


Gonna do a wedding with a white dress and a black tux... turn it on

Going to shoot something in my room thats black, gray, purple... turn it off.
03-30-2008, 08:34 AM   #37
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Noted, and nice shots. I included the shots above as a point of curiousity, but the intent of my post was with regards to file size.
04-04-2008, 07:46 PM   #38
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Am I missing something here or what because I was stumped for the longest time trying to figure out where this Enhanced Dynamic Range mode was on the K20D, and so far the only thing I've found is that the EDR is only applicable to processing JPEG's and not during capture. The feature does not work in PEF or DNG, and if it does, how do you access this mode to take photos in DR mode?

Thanks!

04-04-2008, 08:11 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
The EDR works in two ways one is it will not allow the K20D to over expose and will push the highlights as far right as they will go without over exposing. They also enhance how much headroom you have in the highlights.
When should I use the EDR mode? When you're battling highlight clipping in an over contrasted scene.
Gonna do a wedding with a white dress and a black tux... turn it on
Going to shoot something in my room thats black, gray, purple... turn it off.
The most concise summary I could have imagined. Thanx for that!
04-04-2008, 08:53 PM   #40
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Cool! This is something to look forward to when I get the K20D
04-14-2008, 10:33 PM   #41
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Great example Codiac. What do you think the results would be if we added one more wrinkle: if in the picture of you dog in the snow, there was a large ball or something on the ground that was backlit, so it had a strong shadow. Typically the ball would look black , but would the DR have boosted the shadow to bring out the highlights there?

Bump. I have been trying the EDR mode on my K20D, and I just don't see any difference yet. I thought it might pull more information out of the shadows but I don't see it. So basically, it just helps prevent clipping on the bright end? The odd thing is that with my previous k10d and my k20d, the exposure rarely goes of the right side. If anything, they are always conservative to the left. Anyone else have experience with the EDR? Quite honestly, I like Pirate's photo example above with the EDR off better. I think I even like codiacs picture better with it off!

Last edited by PentaxPoke; 04-30-2008 at 03:33 PM.
04-30-2008, 03:35 PM   #42
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