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01-24-2008, 07:06 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by a a i b Quote
If you drag the images to the desktop, the files are named K10D and K20D respectively. The EXIF data was interesting -- both focal length 31, with the shots taken a few minutes apart.
Not that interesting, obviously a 31 Limited then.

01-24-2008, 08:00 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by mawz Quote
The 6400 shot is no NR? Or just no NR in post (With NR turned on in-camera). I hadn't realized that when he posted them on the PDML. If so, I'm in heaven.
Very impressive high ISO performance, I better start saving now for the 1st availability. I will take IQ anytime against FPS. As to the slow AF issue, several test were done on the K10 against the 40D from C* and and the difference is only a fraction of a second and in real world, it is negligible for me.

Cheers,

Rene
01-24-2008, 09:05 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Now will the people saying that it is impossible to have lower noise while adding 4.6MP to an APS-C sensor please stand out?

Anyone?... That's what I thought...:ugh:
CMOS vs. CCD, there is going to be a difference in noise. If what I read is true, the photosites themselves are bigger in the K20D as a percentage of available space compared to the K10D, so this is going to make a difference too. Then there is in-camera noise reduction to account for as well - does this image have any applied? (The Sony Alpha 700 unveiled this 'RAW NR' feature last year.)

Both shots look like crap, though.
01-24-2008, 09:35 PM   #19
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I can live with this 6400 ISO ...

Noiseware Pro (chroma) - Resize 50% - Resize 50% - USM .5 @ 80



Click on icon for full size image 776 x 1168 PNG 1.7MB

Here's the EXIF that came with the original file ...

[PhotoME]
PhotoME version: 0.79 (Build 612)

[Overview]
File name: C:\Documents and Settings\Mike Jex\Desktop\K20D0489_6400_PS.jpg
File type: JPEG
File size: 16,957.9 KB
Creation date: 1/12/2008 18:19
Last modification: 1/24/2008 21:21
Software: Ver 0.00
Dimension: 3104 x 4672 px (14.5 MP, 2:3)
Focal length: 49 mm KB (32.5 mm Real)
Aperture: F5.6
Exposure time: 1/30" (+0.7 EV)
ISO speed rating: 6400/39
Program: Aperture priority
Metering Mode: Pattern
White Balance: Auto
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

[Image]
Image resolution in width direction: 300 dpi
Image resolution in height direction: 300 dpi
Unit of X and Y resolution: inch
Software: Ver 0.00
File change date and time: 2008-01-23 22:55:06
Exif IFD Pointer: 0x00000090
Time Zone Offset: UTC +01:00, UTC +01:00

[Camera]
Exposure time: 1/30"
F number: F5.6
Exposure program: Aperture priority
ISO speed rating: 6400/39
Exif version: Version 2.21
Date and time of original data generation: 2008-01-12 18:19:19
Date and time of digital data generation: 2008-01-12 18:19:19
Shutter speed: 4.91 Tv (1/30")
Aperture: 4.97 Av (F5.6)
Exposure bias: +0.7 EV
Metering mode: Pattern
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Lens focal length: 32.5 mm
Sensing method: One-chip color area sensor
Custom image processing: Normal process
Exposure mode: Manual exposure
White balance: Auto
Focal length in 35 mm film: 49 mm
Scene capture type: Standard
Contrast: Hard
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Hard
Subject distance range: Macro

Here's a 100% crop of the original after 1 pass through NoiseWare Pro. No other processing.




Last edited by Rickster; 01-24-2008 at 09:48 PM.
01-24-2008, 11:39 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by mawz Quote
The 6400 shot is no NR? Or just no NR in post (With NR turned on in-camera). I hadn't realized that when he posted them on the PDML. If so, I'm in heaven.
No NR in post for sure.

I don't know about NR in camera (apparently you have the choice of NR off, weakest NR, weak NR or high NR).
01-24-2008, 11:42 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
CMOS vs. CCD, there is going to be a difference in noise. If what I read is true, the photosites themselves are bigger in the K20D as a percentage of available space compared to the K10D, so this is going to make a difference too. Then there is in-camera noise reduction to account for as well - does this image have any applied? (The Sony Alpha 700 unveiled this 'RAW NR' feature last year.)

Both shots look like crap, though.
I don't know about in camera NR.

Apparently (contrary to A700) there is a setting on K20D with NR off.
01-25-2008, 01:07 AM   #22
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This does it for me

QuoteOriginally posted by Rickster Quote
I can live with this 6400 ISO ...

Noiseware Pro (chroma) - Resize 50% - Resize 50% - USM .5 @ 80



Click on icon for full size image 776 x 1168 PNG 1.7MB

Here's a 100% crop of the original after 1 pass through NoiseWare Pro. No other processing.

This does it for me for this camera. Having not just the ability to shoot ISO 6400 shots, but usable ISO 6400 shots is huge. If and when Nikon D300 users see this image or ones like it, they will cr*p themselves. This is far and beyond the image quality of the D300 even at ISO3200. I just reread the K10D review on DPReview and it put the AF system in the positive and said it was good. Now is it Can*n EOS **D quality, no. But with this new low light capability and the SAFOX VIII AF system I will not have any problem going and shooting basketball. The true test will be Hockey and to be honest that may be a strictly 1D realm, but other than Hockey I think this camera will be able to do sports. If the WB is improved as much as the ISO performance this camera will kick a$$ at concerts. Besides ISO noise there is no way that the K10D inhibits my photo taking ability. Have I missed shots because the AF didn't lock, yes. But if this new camera is capable of disabling the double check then I think it will be much better. And if the new Tamron 70-200mm is as good as one can hope I say screw the 60-250. Me and this new camera are going to take some beautiful pictures.
01-25-2008, 01:53 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
No re sampling.

Just 100% crops of original raw converted jpegs

Check it our here:

PENTAXITALIA :: Leggi il Topic - Foto con la K20D da 100 a 6400 ISO

There is also an ISO 6400 without NR.
That 6400 iso shot looks very usable.

Ben

01-25-2008, 04:35 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Now will the people saying that it is impossible to have lower noise while adding 4.6MP to an APS-C sensor please stand out?
You have no idea how happy I'm to say that I was completely wrong. When the rumors first surfaced of a 14MP Pentax CMOS first surfaced, I thought the extra resolution would offset the noise reduction from the switch to CMOS, leaving use the noise characteristics similar to the K10D. To come up with a first generation CMOS sensor that has this level of noise at such high density is extremely impressive. I can't wait to shoot at f/1.4, ISO 3200, 1/5 sec.

I'm pretty excited about a lot of the other other changes too, lens af tuning, option to turn off focus double check, one press bracketing, extended dynamic range, improved shake reduction, quieter shutter, higher quality lcd, intervalometer, and live view.

Now I just need to decide whether I should preorder it, or wait for the bugs to be worked out and the price to drop.
01-25-2008, 06:51 AM   #25
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Here is another K20D review with high ISO samples and various in-camera NR settings. There are also comparison shots with the K10D.

Pentax K20D: toma de contacto y muestras

I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the usability of the 3200 and even the 6400 shots.
01-25-2008, 07:17 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
Cool - looks promising. Love to see the 6400 example, or at least 3200 from each.
The K10D is limited to 1600 so you cannot compare 3200 or 6400 from each.
01-25-2008, 07:53 AM   #27
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From being serously underwhelmed by high iso K10 photos, I am now overwhelmed by the K20's.
Will have to see how much the dynamic range is clipped at high iso though.
01-25-2008, 08:12 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Duck Dodgers Quote
That's odd. My Firefox (v2.0.0.11) shows the K10D shot on top.

Your version of Firefox also changed your sig so it says "advise" instead of "advice."
Nah, that's just cause I can't spell worth a damn. Thanks for catching it. FYI, I'm using the same version of Firefox as you.
01-25-2008, 08:20 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
From being serously underwhelmed by high iso K10 photos, I am now overwhelmed by the K20's.
Will have to see how much the dynamic range is clipped at high iso though.

Looks pretty good in this 6400 ISO image.

Noiseware Pro (Night Scene) - 50% Resize - 50% Resize - Smart Sharpen .5 50%


Click on image for larger finshed image - 1.3MB

All you concert shooters should like this.

Here's the EXIF from the original ...

[PhotoME]
PhotoME version: 0.79 (Build 612)

[Overview]
File type: JPEG
File size: 12,166.5 KB
Creation date: 1/11/2008 08:27
Last modification: 1/25/2008 08:07
Software: Ver 0.00
Dimension: 4672 x 3104 px (14.5 MP, 3:2)
Focal length: 202 mm KB (135 mm Real)
Aperture: F2.8
Exposure time: 1/350"
ISO speed rating: 6400/39
Program: Aperture priority
Metering Mode: Center Weighted Average
White Balance: Auto
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

[Camera]
Exposure time: 1/350"
F number: F2.8
Exposure program: Aperture priority
ISO speed rating: 6400/39
Exif version: Version 2.21
Date and time of original data generation: 2008-01-11 08:27:38
Date and time of digital data generation: 2008-01-11 08:27:38
Meaning of each component: YCbCr
Exposure bias: 0 EV
Metering mode: Center Weighted Average
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Lens focal length: 135 mm
Manufacturer notes: 0x0000040C
Supported Flashpix version: Version 1.0
Color space information: sRGB
Image width: 4672 px
Image height: 3104 px
Interoperability IFD Pointer: 0x0000D40C
Sensing method: One-chip color area sensor
File source: Digital Camera
Scene type: A directly photographed image
Custom image processing: Normal process
Exposure mode: Auto exposure
White balance: Auto
Focal length in 35 mm film: 202 mm
Scene capture type: Standard
Contrast: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Normal
Subject distance range: Distant view

Last edited by Rickster; 01-25-2008 at 08:25 AM.
01-25-2008, 09:08 AM   #30
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Picture confusion

There was some picture confusion, so I checked the reported exif. You can see the diff of them.



Interesting stuff this..
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