High ISO quality of K20

lol101 · 01-24-2008, 04:48 PM

A fellow Italian Pentax user had the opportunity to shoot his K10 alongside the K20 (early firmware) in Dubai and had the excellent idea to post ISO 1600 shots processed through CS3 without any noise removal (so sliders to 0, not default).

What we are seeing here is the "raw" sensor noise, unaffected by any software treatment.

Here are 100% crops of shadow areas:

First K10, then K20.

Now will the people saying that it is impossible to have lower noise while adding 4.6MP to an APS-C sensor please stand out?

Anyone?... That's what I thought...:ugh:

Last edited by lol101; 04-06-2008 at 08:21 AM.

Arpe · 01-24-2008, 04:52 PM

Cool - looks promising. Love to see the 6400 example, or at least 3200 from each.

Rener · 01-24-2008, 04:57 PM

Looking good to me, there is very clear line definition along the edges and the noise in the dark area is very managedable.

Cheers,

Rene

roscot · 01-24-2008, 05:08 PM

I think you got it backwards. Exif shows the 2nd shot is from the K10. The 1st shot has no camera info, so I would assume that is the K20. Allowing for it is an early firmware, although much better than the K10, it is still pretty noisy. I could not use it for any of my client shots.

Now, if you show me that ISO 1000-1200 looks like 400 on my K10, I would find that extremely useful.

jebidiam · 01-24-2008, 05:26 PM

You're wrong. The EXIF data backs up what lol101 said. Unless he swiched around the pics after you made your post.

lol101 · 01-24-2008, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by roscot

I think you got it backwards. Exif shows the 2nd shot is from the K10. The 1st shot has no camera info, so I would assume that is the K20. Allowing for it is an early firmware, although much better than the K10, it is still pretty noisy. I could not use it for any of my client shots.

Now, if you show me that ISO 1000-1200 looks like 400 on my K10, I would find that extremely useful.

Errr no, the K20 is the second one and has exif...

Furthermore it is an UNPROCESSED raw shot (no in cam noise reduction raw + no further noise reduction in CS3).

It gives you an idea of what the noise reduction soft (be it in camera or not) starts with.

Cambo · 01-24-2008, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by lol101

A fellow Italian Pentax user had the opportunity to shoot his K10 alongside the K20 (early firmware) in Dubai and had the excellent idea to post ISO 1600 shots processed through CS3 without any noise removal (so sliders to 0, not default).

What we are seeing here is the "raw" sensor noise, unaffected by any software treatment.

Here are 100% crops of shadow areas:

First K10, then K20.

Now will the people saying that it is impossible to have lower noise while adding 4.6MP to an APS-C sensor please stand out?

Anyone?... That's what I thought...:ugh:

post a couple at 1600 and 3200 with the NR engaged?

If you still have the camera, that is. And full shots as well as crops.

And when you get that done, I've got some ironing that needs doing...

Cheers,
Cameron

torge · 01-24-2008, 05:39 PM

how were these taken?
how would resampling (if done) affect the impression of noise?

Torge curious

roscot · 01-24-2008, 05:42 PM

Well then Firefox is doing a flip flop on me

. On my screen K10D is the bottom shot. It is also much noisier than the top shot.

Just to show you I'm not crazy, here is a screen shot of my desktop:

lol101 · 01-24-2008, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Cambo

post a couple at 1600 and 3200 with the NR engaged?

If you still have the camera, that is. And full shots as well as crops.

And when you get that done, I've got some ironing that needs doing...

Cheers,
Cameron

As I said, these are not my shots (first sentence of my post).

NR'd ISO 1600 will retain considerably more details than K10 you can bet on it.

lol101 · 01-24-2008, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by torge

how were these taken?
how would resampling (if done) affect the impression of noise?

Torge curious

No re sampling.

Just 100% crops of original raw converted jpegs

Check it our here:

PENTAXITALIA :: Leggi il Topic - Foto con la K20D da 100 a 6400 ISO

There is also an ISO 6400 without NR.

Tbear · 01-24-2008, 05:58 PM

Mercie, lol101

Very nice demonstration of the K20D's high ISO capabilities.

Duck Dodgers · 01-24-2008, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by roscot

Well then Firefox is doing a flip flop on me

. On my screen K10D is the bottom shot. It is also much noisier than the top shot.

That's odd. My Firefox (v2.0.0.11) shows the K10D shot on top.

Your version of Firefox also changed your sig so it says "advise" instead of "advice."

a a i b · 01-24-2008, 06:14 PM

If you drag the images to the desktop, the files are named K10D and K20D respectively. The EXIF data was interesting -- both focal length 31, with the shots taken a few minutes apart.

mawz · 01-24-2008, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by lol101

No re sampling.

Just 100% crops of original raw converted jpegs

Check it our here:

PENTAXITALIA :: Leggi il Topic - Foto con la K20D da 100 a 6400 ISO

There is also an ISO 6400 without NR.

The 6400 shot is no NR? Or just no NR in post (With NR turned on in-camera). I hadn't realized that when he posted them on the PDML. If so, I'm in heaven.

01-24-2008, 04:48 PM	#1
lol101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Garennes sur Eure France Photos: Gallery Posts: 899	High ISO quality of K20 A fellow Italian Pentax user had the opportunity to shoot his K10 alongside the K20 (early firmware) in Dubai and had the excellent idea to post ISO 1600 shots processed through CS3 without any noise removal (so sliders to 0, not default). What we are seeing here is the "raw" sensor noise, unaffected by any software treatment. Here are 100% crops of shadow areas: First K10, then K20. Now will the people saying that it is impossible to have lower noise while adding 4.6MP to an APS-C sensor please stand out? Anyone?... That's what I thought...:ugh: Last edited by lol101; 04-06-2008 at 08:21 AM.

01-24-2008, 05:36 PM	#7
Cambo Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,016	Could you please.... Originally posted by lol101 A fellow Italian Pentax user had the opportunity to shoot his K10 alongside the K20 (early firmware) in Dubai and had the excellent idea to post ISO 1600 shots processed through CS3 without any noise removal (so sliders to 0, not default). What we are seeing here is the "raw" sensor noise, unaffected by any software treatment. Here are 100% crops of shadow areas: First K10, then K20. Now will the people saying that it is impossible to have lower noise while adding 4.6MP to an APS-C sensor please stand out? Anyone?... That's what I thought...:ugh: post a couple at 1600 and 3200 with the NR engaged? If you still have the camera, that is. And full shots as well as crops. And when you get that done, I've got some ironing that needs doing... Cheers, Cameron

01-24-2008, 05:39 PM	#8
torge Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hamburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 199	there must be some resampling involved due to the different resolutions, eh? how were these taken? how would resampling (if done) affect the impression of noise? Torge curious

01-24-2008, 05:42 PM	#9
roscot Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Virginia Beach VA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,363	Well then Firefox is doing a flip flop on me. On my screen K10D is the bottom shot. It is also much noisier than the top shot. Just to show you I'm not crazy, here is a screen shot of my desktop: Last edited by roscot; 01-24-2008 at 05:57 PM.

01-24-2008, 05:59 PM	#13
Duck Dodgers Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: in the 24½th Century! Photos: Gallery Posts: 439	Originally posted by roscot Well then Firefox is doing a flip flop on me. On my screen K10D is the bottom shot. It is also much noisier than the top shot. That's odd. My Firefox (v2.0.0.11) shows the K10D shot on top. Your version of Firefox also changed your sig so it says "advise" instead of "advice."

01-24-2008, 04:52 PM	#2
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Cool - looks promising. Love to see the 6400 example, or at least 3200 from each.

01-24-2008, 04:57 PM	#3
Rener Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 292	Looking good to me, there is very clear line definition along the edges and the noise in the dark area is very managedable. Cheers, Rene

01-24-2008, 05:08 PM	#4
roscot Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Virginia Beach VA USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,363	I think you got it backwards. Exif shows the 2nd shot is from the K10. The 1st shot has no camera info, so I would assume that is the K20. Allowing for it is an early firmware, although much better than the K10, it is still pretty noisy. I could not use it for any of my client shots. Now, if you show me that ISO 1000-1200 looks like 400 on my K10, I would find that extremely useful.

01-24-2008, 05:26 PM	#5
jebidiam Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 11	You're wrong. The EXIF data backs up what lol101 said. Unless he swiched around the pics after you made your post.

01-24-2008, 05:29 PM	#6
lol101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Garennes sur Eure France Photos: Gallery Posts: 899 Original Poster	Originally posted by roscot I think you got it backwards. Exif shows the 2nd shot is from the K10. The 1st shot has no camera info, so I would assume that is the K20. Allowing for it is an early firmware, although much better than the K10, it is still pretty noisy. I could not use it for any of my client shots. Now, if you show me that ISO 1000-1200 looks like 400 on my K10, I would find that extremely useful. Errr no, the K20 is the second one and has exif... Furthermore it is an UNPROCESSED raw shot (no in cam noise reduction raw + no further noise reduction in CS3). It gives you an idea of what the noise reduction soft (be it in camera or not) starts with.

01-24-2008, 05:48 PM	#10
lol101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Garennes sur Eure France Photos: Gallery Posts: 899 Original Poster	Originally posted by Cambo post a couple at 1600 and 3200 with the NR engaged? If you still have the camera, that is. And full shots as well as crops. And when you get that done, I've got some ironing that needs doing... Cheers, Cameron As I said, these are not my shots (first sentence of my post). NR'd ISO 1600 will retain considerably more details than K10 you can bet on it.

01-24-2008, 05:50 PM	#11
lol101 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Garennes sur Eure France Photos: Gallery Posts: 899 Original Poster	Originally posted by torge how were these taken? how would resampling (if done) affect the impression of noise? Torge curious No re sampling. Just 100% crops of original raw converted jpegs Check it our here: PENTAXITALIA :: Leggi il Topic - Foto con la K20D da 100 a 6400 ISO There is also an ISO 6400 without NR.

01-24-2008, 05:58 PM	#12
Tbear Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 269	Mercie, lol101 Very nice demonstration of the K20D's high ISO capabilities.

01-24-2008, 06:14 PM	#14
a a i b Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brooklyn Photos: Gallery Posts: 315	If you drag the images to the desktop, the files are named K10D and K20D respectively. The EXIF data was interesting -- both focal length 31, with the shots taken a few minutes apart.

01-24-2008, 07:05 PM	#15
mawz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 166	Originally posted by lol101 No re sampling. Just 100% crops of original raw converted jpegs Check it our here: PENTAXITALIA :: Leggi il Topic - Foto con la K20D da 100 a 6400 ISO There is also an ISO 6400 without NR. The 6400 shot is no NR? Or just no NR in post (With NR turned on in-camera). I hadn't realized that when he posted them on the PDML. If so, I'm in heaven.

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