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01-25-2008, 06:16 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
It's also a myth. As it says in the review, they tried with different settings and didn't see a change in the results.
I guess I need to go back and reread that review. But, my memory aside, how could you change the jpeg settings and NOT see a difference?!? If this is true, then Phil needs to take up another hobby.

01-26-2008, 12:32 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
Why do I always hear the mantra that people do not care about IQ if they choose some other brand than Pentax?

I applaud Pentax for making the choice of IQ over speed, but they certainly do not have a stranglehold on image quality. Other brands are just as good, otherwise they'd be dead in the water already. I certainly can't fault people who probably need the speed for the shooting they do, but that doesn't make them less caring about the image quality when they chose another brand.

Here's the deal: any DSLR today (even one generation ago) is capable of producing great pictures. The battle's being fought on features now, otherwise Pentax didn't try to put in 14MP in their CMOS sensor, which, in itself, is a marketable feature. They figured to differentiate themselves on MP count and not speed, and now they have a weapon to use when comparing spec sheets.

For all the whiners about people not needing faster AF and higher FPS count, there are also those who think that high ISO performance isn't needed by a lot of people. Different strokes for different folks.

Totally mind-boggling!!!!

Vinzer - you sure have a lot of nerve submitting a post like that! Don't you know that writing unbiased/objective/rational messages is considered unacceptable behavior on camera forums?
01-26-2008, 07:40 AM   #33
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Ben-

"Just one more time..I am not on the Pentax Payroll."

Although you are not an employee of Pentax, you are indeed compensated by them are you not?

Compensation takes many forms- either receiving free or discounted product; receiving honorariums; having lodging, meals, and misc. expenses covered while attending meetings, trade shows, etc.; having free promotion of your work, and so on.

I know this as I had several sponsors when I was a minor success in a sport.

Although I was never an employee of any of my sponsors, the financial benefits were major, and I was expected to promote my sponsors' products at trade shows, in my writing, etc. As a matter of fact, because of the nature of the sponsorships, and the fact there were little actual tax implications, the "benefits" I received were better than receiving paycheques.

Good post, vinzer!
01-26-2008, 07:53 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
It's also a myth. As it says in the review, they tried with different settings and didn't see a change in the results.
The Pentax K10D has been out for over a year now. I think it is pretty obvious that it is as good or better than any camera in its price range and as good or better than some that are priced hundreds of dollars more. The use of "JUST" in Phil's final verdict is more of a joke than ever. In my mind, it destroys some (maybe not all) of his credibility. It also shows that he is not man enough to know when he has made a mistake and admit it as such. He had (and still has) the opportunity to correct that and has chosen not to.

01-26-2008, 10:24 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by DAP Quote
Totally mind-boggling!!!!

Vinzer - you sure have a lot of nerve submitting a post like that! Don't you know that writing unbiased/objective/rational messages is considered unacceptable behavior on camera forums?
Oops, my bad!

QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
"Just one more time..I am not on the Pentax Payroll."

Although you are not an employee of Pentax, you are indeed compensated by them are you not?

Compensation takes many forms- either receiving free or discounted product; receiving honorariums; having lodging, meals, and misc. expenses covered while attending meetings, trade shows, etc.; having free promotion of your work, and so on.

I know this as I had several sponsors when I was a minor success in a sport.

Although I was never an employee of any of my sponsors, the financial benefits were major, and I was expected to promote my sponsors' products at trade shows, in my writing, etc. As a matter of fact, because of the nature of the sponsorships, and the fact there were little actual tax implications, the "benefits" I received were better than receiving paycheques.

Good post, vinzer!
Thanks Tom. I'm more of an AF-S, one frame per 4 seconds (or more) kinda guy, but I do understand the need of others for faster AF and more FPS. The type of shooting you do, from what I see (and highly admire), would certainly benefit from that. Why can't we just all get along, and agree to disagree?

QuoteOriginally posted by Tbear Quote
The Pentax K10D has been out for over a year now. I think it is pretty obvious that it is as good or better than any camera in its price range and as good or better than some that are priced hundreds of dollars more. The use of "JUST" in Phil's final verdict is more of a joke than ever. In my mind, it destroys some (maybe not all) of his credibility. It also shows that he is not man enough to know when he has made a mistake and admit it as such. He had (and still has) the opportunity to correct that and has chosen not to.
Well, we all know Phil doesn't take the time to change default settings to more ideal ones (as would a lot of camera buyers, I suspect), but I highly respect the work he does, putting together reviews like that (I doubt it's that easy, and a big labor of love since they didn't have Amazon's money before). As well, it's certainly more rational and scientific than some other reviews.
01-26-2008, 11:07 AM   #36
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Most of those that are complaining about the K20D seem to want what Canon and Nikon have in their high end cameras, but are too cheap to pay for it, so they want Pentax to build it for them at half the price.

The K10D is a great camera and I am sure the K20D will be also, which is why I am going to buy one. I also have a DS that I will never get rid of and I shoot jpg most of the time with it, even though Phil hated the jpg output of the camera.

Tom
01-26-2008, 11:58 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ennacac Quote
Most of those that are complaining about the K20D seem to want what Canon and Nikon have in their high end cameras, but are too cheap to pay for it, so they want Pentax to build it for them at half the price.

Tom
Any problem in wanting to keep the things on a budget?
01-26-2008, 01:18 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Just one more time..I am not on the Pentax Payroll.
Ben
I do believe Benji get more in the way bribes and favours. You know, hookers sent to his room, rival photographer's with no history of mental illness shooting themselves in the back (17 times with two different weapons), witnesses threatened, has a mysteriously-obtained deal with the French government that he can legally hang his washing out on the Eiffel Tower, that sorta thing.

Seriously.

What more do you want from a $1300 camera? Audio? 5.1 audio mode? How about each camera comes with your own personal pro-photographer that does all the shooting for you? He also comes with a legal document that states, although you didn't actually touch the camera, legally, you did take any photos with it, and all skill and talent evident in your photo is your own.

Next camera better have 50-gigapixel resolution - I don't want to have to switch to an annoying longer lens if I want to capture something far away - I'll just crop down in photoshop. Also, can this "battery life" crap - where's our cold fusion cells? And why can't the fusion cells be used to power some sort of anti-gravity device be cause it weighs so damn much.

Look, FPS junkies, I've got a perfect camera for you. It's got uber-high FPS, for that moment you miss - just in case:



01-26-2008, 05:05 PM   #39
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I think a lot of the whining you hear from the disappointed brigade is that they were expecting a D300 clone, a pentax camera that went toe to toe feature for feature with the D300. Oh and obviously they wanted it at 1/2 the price too.

Instead Pentax came out with a camera that (may just) knock the socks off any image that the D300 can produce from the Sony 12MP sensor.

More importantly Pentax have their own sensor, Pentax cameras no longer have to be Nikon clones. Pentax no longer has to rely on Sony (a major competitor) for its technology - which system would you rather be with?

If you desperately need faster (less accurate) AF with more fps and just can't live without a 3" screen well you are in luck there is a camera just for you called the D300.

As for me the Pentax K20D is the camera I have been waiting for - time to upgrade the *istDS.
01-26-2008, 05:13 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
"Just one more time..I am not on the Pentax Payroll."

Although you are not an employee of Pentax, you are indeed compensated by them are you not?

Compensation takes many forms- either receiving free or discounted product; receiving honorariums; having lodging, meals, and misc. expenses covered while attending meetings, trade shows, etc.; having free promotion of your work, and so on.

I know this as I had several sponsors when I was a minor success in a sport.

Although I was never an employee of any of my sponsors, the financial benefits were major, and I was expected to promote my sponsors' products at trade shows, in my writing, etc. As a matter of fact, because of the nature of the sponsorships, and the fact there were little actual tax implications, the "benefits" I received were better than receiving paycheques.
...
Wow, you really sound like you have an axe to grind. I can't help feeling you've been so uber critical of so many things of Pentax in your many posts here and in other threads.

Sorry but I find it disingenuous that having been given a platform to post your wonderful images on the Pentax Gallery, you are so negative and critical of Pentax here. By your own definition, aren't you also implicitly "compensated" by Pentax?

If don't believe in promoting Pentax or the merits of the Pentax system, then why continue to be featured on the Pentax Gallery? I think your pictures, like others on the Pentax Gallery are an inspiration for other existing or would-be Pentax users that the Pentax cameras are capable of producing such fine images. If you are so critical of Pentax then do the right thing and don't have your images on their website.
01-26-2008, 07:16 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
"Just one more time..I am not on the Pentax Payroll."

Although you are not an employee of Pentax, you are indeed compensated by them are you not?

Compensation takes many forms- either receiving free or discounted product; receiving honorariums; having lodging, meals, and misc. expenses covered while attending meetings, trade shows, etc.; having free promotion of your work, and so on.

I know this as I had several sponsors when I was a minor success in a sport.

Although I was never an employee of any of my sponsors, the financial benefits were major, and I was expected to promote my sponsors' products at trade shows, in my writing, etc. As a matter of fact, because of the nature of the sponsorships, and the fact there were little actual tax implications, the "benefits" I received were better than receiving paycheques.

Good post, vinzer!
I don't personally know benjikan and I am sure e is more than capable of defending himself or ignoring your pointless attacks against him.

He is sponsored by Pentax, not paid by Pentax, and all he is required to do is use Pentax equipment in a professional capacity. Pentax now have the benefit of credibility for their brand and feedback from a professional user in their target market.

I believe Benjikan chooses to come on this forum simply because he likes to.
01-26-2008, 07:50 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Falcons Quote
I believe Benjikan chooses to come on this forum simply because he likes to.
I believe so too, and I'm glad he does decide to visit as he doesn't only talk about the new equipment. He shows us his work as well as help others with their photography.
01-26-2008, 08:19 PM   #43
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Dear Ceampuff and Falcons

???

Sorry Creampuff. Please let me know what benefit I get from having images in PPG, since I am unaware of any. Actually, those with images in PPG are doing Pentax a favour.

Ben stated quite clearly that he is not on Pentax's payroll. I do not dispute this at all. I simply pointed out that sponsorship can be just as lucrative (or more so) than being directly employed by a company. Is this not so?

Falcons- nice to see that you have read Ben's sponsorship agreement and know all the terms. I admit to being a little surprised that Ben and/or Pentax would have made you privy to this information.

Back to Creampuff - because I use Pentax equipment, that means - "promoting Pentax or the merits of the Pentax system" naturally follows? I hope you're kidding. I drive a Honda and a couple of Chevs. Should I be promoting them? I can't understand the reasoning behind people buying jackets, hats, etc. with product advertising on them. The manufacturer should be paying people to wear that stuff. Some apparently like to show "brand allegiance", though, and that's their business. I could care less what they spend their money on.

A camera is nothing more than a hunk of plastic, some metal, glass and some electronics. I do not become personally enamored or involved with inanimate objects, no matter what it is or who the manufacturer.

In contrast, some here and on other camera fora seem to take any comments that are not glowing praise about their choice of camera as some sort of personal attack. Incredible. Falcons' penultimate (Creampuff used disingenuous, so I am allowed one $3.00 word, too) post is a fairly good example of this way of thinking. I suspect he is a young person and will mellow with age.

One point that many of those who think that Pentax's offerings are without flaws, or that no-one should dare to mention said flaws, miss is that if Pentax is led to believe their products are perfect, they will have little incentive to correct their oversights or misjudgments. The market usually takes care of those companies that lose touch with reality. Just look at what has become of some of the U.S automakers.

I have owned Pentax products since the late 60's and have some decent glass that produces decent photos for me. I am disappointed in some of their recent decisions and the fact they have not produced more and better products in a timely manner. Apparently this is because they do not have the funds to do any better and Hoya, despite the hopes we all had, is not helping the situation.

In closing - if this forum is meant to be some sort of Pentax Fan Club, I hope the owners will let me know by banning me. If indeed this is the case, I will not mind at all.

If, however, it is meant to provide a place to get feedback on images, peacefully and respectfully discuss the various features of Pentax- the pros AND the cons - and otherwise interact with others with a shared passion for photography, I'll choose to continue participating.
01-26-2008, 08:30 PM   #44
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Tom,
I love your way with words--almost as good as your photography! If you ever get down this way, look me up and my wife and I will buy the best steak dinner in OKC.
01-26-2008, 08:51 PM   #45
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Tom, yes you are very apt at twisting words to suit your needs. I admit I haven't been privy to Benjikans sponsorship agreement nor (I dare say) have you. So please do tell us why you are right and everyone else is wrong.

Now to my penultimate post - Pray do point out the part where I am referring to you attacking my personal choice of camera - I have re read the post a number of times and can not see this reference.
To clear it up for you I was responding to your, in my opinion, unwarranted comments about benjikan and, again my opinion, insinuation that his motive for participation on this forum is due to re numeration of some form or another via a sponsorship deal.

As I stated I don't know Benjikan and I hope he doesn't take my butting in and coming to his defence the wrong way - as I know he is quite capable of dealing with you and your ilk most aptly on his own merits.

Perhaps you should consider the simple fact that some are here for the exact same reason as me - because they like it here.

PS - I do admire your photos Tom, please post more.
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