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07-11-2012, 11:03 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
Lowly, commodity-king Casio beat out Pentax?!?! Pitiful.
Lowly, commodity-king "beat" out Pentax because they sell lots of lowly, commodity stuff but not even one DSLR? Irrelevant

alamo5000, iirc Pentax was making a profit before Hoya's hostile takeover (I can't see it as a merger, since Pentax was forced to do it) and subsequent cost cutting.

07-12-2012, 01:11 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
Lowly, commodity-king Casio beat out Pentax?!?!


(Can I have a Pentax digital watch with that new Pentax DSLR kit????)
Well the gross off the market is P&S. Like Vivitar sells 79,99USD camera's by a big bundle, but that doesn't make it a big company. Remember that Casio is a well known brand by everyone that owns a calculator and that makes it viable to buy a camera from them.

Maybe you can have a Pentax calculator

Selling camera's is one thing. Making a profit is a different matter. Kodak is hi on that list and lost 100 miljion dollar in that year on the camerabussiness. Olympus makes a loss too. And some others.
07-12-2012, 02:53 AM   #48
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There was something towards the end of the text about banks and long-term investments.
Maybe something is lost in translation, but when statements containing both references to investors and restructuring of a company I always suspect the stock market to be the ultimate receiver of the "news", and that it might not mean an awful lot to the rest of us.

WRT stepping up efforts, he specifically mentions countries of growing markets like Russia and China. I hope they succeed there even if I can't see change coming to my own corner of the world.
07-12-2012, 04:52 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
No one wants Ricoh cameras
I'd take any one of the classic 80's Ricoh's. They were built like tanks.

07-12-2012, 05:05 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
There was a Ricoh announcement recently from someone high in management. I can't find it but I found the gist of it on PhotoRumors:

Ricoh will continue to exist as a camera brand and they promised “some very high-end Ricoh products” to be announced this year.

Here's one from PhotoRumors I hadn't heard before:

"Ricoh filed a patent 2012128045 for 14mm f/2.5 and 19mm f/2.5 lenses (28mm and 35mm equivalent). The interesting part is that the 19mm lens is designed for an APS-C camera (the 14mm lens is for a 4/3inch sensor). It is not clear from the patent if those lenses are designed for the GXR system or for a future GR model that will come with an APS-C [...]"

Go Ricoh!

Ricoh | Photo Rumors
I saw this too. a GRDV (which is the next logical model) with a 19 2.5 on apsc would be a hell of a P&S, a perfect street machine. Ricoh is really good at this type of P&S, and it's the one part of the P&S market that may survive the enthusiast / pro camera.
I would be sorely tempted by a camera like this (and it would be better than any existing P&S out now)
07-12-2012, 05:15 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
Lowly, commodity-king Casio beat out Pentax?!?! Pitiful. Doubling from the bottom should be easy. From 1.5% to 3%. Pentax is practically off the pie chart as it is. I hope this move by Ricoh management actually works and keeps Pentax from going out of business. Some life in the new products over the next three years is so essential. Feels like the competition at the top is accelerating away but maybe Ricoh can counterpunch better than Hoya could entrench themselves into a corner. (Can I have a Pentax digital watch with that new Pentax DSLR kit????)

It's a misleading chart because it include P&S which on unit sales was still the king. look at sony's place on the chart. they sure didn't get there with Alpa and nex, it's the millions of sub $400 P&S they sell. All casio sells is cheap P&S, but they sell a ton of them. in the year and a half since this P&S has been in a steady decline and DSLR has continued to grow. Pentax DSLR in particular has done very well given there has only been 2 cameras. When Ricoh said there is a need for a 4DSLR line they were bang on. Essentially Hoya managed what they could without spending money to develop the brand. They did a good job with what was allocated to the division, but I think the next 2 years is going to see a very different Pentax emerge, one that is headed back in the right direction again. Photokina will likely be very interesting this year. this announcement is just getting all their ducks in a row so to speak.
07-12-2012, 09:06 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote

alamo5000, iirc Pentax was making a profit before Hoya's hostile takeover (I can't see it as a merger, since Pentax was forced to do it) and subsequent cost cutting.
I don't know the history, but seems to me like Hoya is a poorly managed company overall. It shows in their numbers, what little I read...

If the Hoya takeover was hostile that's even more reason to rejoice regarding Ricoh. Hostiles rarely work out well---
07-12-2012, 09:12 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I saw this too. a GRDV (which is the next logical model) with a 19 2.5 on apsc would be a hell of a P&S, a perfect street machine. Ricoh is really good at this type of P&S, and it's the one part of the P&S market that may survive the enthusiast / pro camera.
The GRDIV was a good monster... now this. Cool compact.. too bad I can't squeeze it in with current plans

07-12-2012, 09:26 AM - 1 Like   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
I don't know the history, but seems to me like Hoya is a poorly managed company overall. It shows in their numbers, what little I read...

If the Hoya takeover was hostile that's even more reason to rejoice regarding Ricoh. Hostiles rarely work out well---
A quick summary, from memory:
- Mr. Fumio Urano, then CEO at Pentax, and Mr. Hiroshi Suzuki, CEO Hoya, arranged together that Pentax and Hoya should merge and form a new company, Hoya Pentax HD.
- the Pentax board is presented an already made deal, on which they apparently didn't had prior knowledge. However, instead of accepting they would reject it - going as far as replacing Mr. Fumio Urano.
- a fight for control over Pentax occurs, the Pentax board and their new CEO trying to keep Pentax (probably encouraged by the K10D's success), by showing to their shareholders plans that would allow them to proceed on their own.
- unfortunately, a major shareholder - Sparx - wants to sell; using their influence to force other shareholders and the board to go their way.
- in light of such strong shareholder activism, the Pentax board had to accept Hoya's tender proposal; thus, Hoya finally buys Pentax.
07-12-2012, 09:57 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
The GRDIV was a good monster... now this. Cool compact.. too bad I can't squeeze it in with current plans
well no guarantee the V will be apsc or m4/3 but the lens patents do lend credence to it (I see no need for 2 more 28mm mountors on the GXR, though a sensor upgrade would always be good)
07-12-2012, 10:54 PM   #56
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ok

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
It's a misleading chart because it include P&S which on unit sales was still the king. look at sony's place on the chart. they sure didn't get there with Alpa and nex, it's the millions of sub $400 P&S they sell. All casio sells is cheap P&S, but they sell a ton of them. in the year and a half since this P&S has been in a steady decline and DSLR has continued to grow. Pentax DSLR in particular has done very well given there has only been 2 cameras. When Ricoh said there is a need for a 4DSLR line they were bang on. Essentially Hoya managed what they could without spending money to develop the brand. They did a good job with what was allocated to the division, but I think the next 2 years is going to see a very different Pentax emerge, one that is headed back in the right direction again. Photokina will likely be very interesting this year. this announcement is just getting all their ducks in a row so to speak.
Thanks for the clarification!

07-13-2012, 04:37 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
- a fight for control over Pentax occurs, the Pentax board and their new CEO trying to keep Pentax (probably encouraged by the K10D's success), by showing to their shareholders plans that would allow them to proceed on their own.
- unfortunately, a major shareholder - Sparx - wants to sell; using their influence to force other shareholders and the board to go their way.
- in light of such strong shareholder activism, the Pentax board had to accept Hoya's tender proposal; thus, Hoya finally buys Pentax.
Is that a different version than the common lore? The story I've heard over and over, is that Hoya wanted Pentax medical, but had to take the camera division too, which they had no real interest in. They partnered with Samsung because they didn't want to operate or invest in Pentax Imaging. I recall reading Hoya press releases after Samsung bowed out, saying that Pentax Imaging needed to find a partner or buyer in order for the camera division to continue.

I can't think of a better buyer for Pentax than Ricoh. IMO this is a fantastic situation all around.
07-13-2012, 04:42 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
I'd take any one of the classic 80's Ricoh's. They were built like tanks.
My first camera was a Ricoh KR-10. It was solid as a rock and bomb-proof reliable. I have no idea what happened to it and I wish I still had it.
07-13-2012, 05:50 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Is that a different version than the common lore? The story I've heard over and over, is that Hoya wanted Pentax medical, but had to take the camera division too, which they had no real interest in. They partnered with Samsung because they didn't want to operate or invest in Pentax Imaging. I recall reading Hoya press releases after Samsung bowed out, saying that Pentax Imaging needed to find a partner or buyer in order for the camera division to continue.

I can't think of a better buyer for Pentax than Ricoh. IMO this is a fantastic situation all around.
If it is, then the common lore is false But let's check each statement, since I don't think they conflicts what I said:
- "Hoya wanted Pentax medical, but had to take the camera division too, which they had no real interest in" - indeed; since they declared that we can consider it a fact. Maybe that's one of the reasons why the Pentax board resisted the merger?
- "They partnered with Samsung because they didn't want to operate or invest in Pentax Imaging" - Pentax-Samsung partnership started before Hoya; on January 2006 Samsung already had the "GX-1S" while the initial Hoya deal was made public in December 2006. I'm not sure Hoya was that happy with the Samsung deal.
- "I recall reading Hoya press releases after Samsung bowed out, saying that Pentax Imaging needed to find a partner or buyer in order for the camera division to continue." - I recall that statement myself (I think they were wording it as a possibility, and less as a need and they were talking about a partner, not a buyer - but we know how things turned out).

Ricoh seems definitely better than Hoya.
07-13-2012, 10:14 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
My first camera was a Ricoh KR-10. It was solid as a rock and bomb-proof reliable. I have no idea what happened to it and I wish I still had it.
I bet that you wished you didn't have this Ricoh. Plasticky, expensive, and faulty. From a previous post of mine:

QuoteOriginally posted by lammie200 Quote
You are right. This is what I fear. I bought one and regretted it.

1988 Ricoh Mirai Camera (Australian ad) - YouTube
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