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01-25-2008, 05:07 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Birdman Quote
I would like to take the opportunity to explain our product terms:
Kx = professionel segment (“Top of the Range Product”)
Kxx = semi-professionel
Kxxx = amateur
Kxxxx = entry-level"[/B][/I]
Why entry level? A K200D... Lite? How much more simplified could it get? I can't imagine how much more entry level you can get than K200D. If you cut back on features, then it's just the K100D Super or K100D. At a user skill level that's even below the K200D, I can't see why anyone would buy interchangable lenses for the said camera. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

If they're not buying a K200D, then they don't want interchangable lenses. I can't see why someone wouldn't want to buy the K200D if they wanted to expand their photography with Pentax. There shouldn't be anything below amateur. I don't think there's anyone down there who doesn't want a point & shoot.

01-25-2008, 05:27 AM   #32
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An entry level K2000D could be a K200D without weather sealing.
01-25-2008, 05:49 AM   #33
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They said they will do a k1d??

Even tho I put my k10d for sale in anticipation of the announcemnt, I didnt manage to sell it and now I am leaning towards keeping it at least untill summer. I recently did a lot of lens selling and found that upgrading lenses can be quite positive if its done right, meaning that you dont loose too much when you sell so upgrading isnt that expensive. But I find that upgrading the body often is expensive because unlike the lenses the body drops in value like a brick.

So I think an interesting question for us k10d owners who are not 100% convinced that even tho the k20 has a better sensor is it worth the extra money, is: Will there be a k1d in mid 2008 so u can skip the k20 and wait for that. And/or will there be a k30d already next year with even further upgrades that will make it a step up from k10d in all aspects (if they keep the sensor next time and upgrade the af and all the other things that were left unchanged). It would be expensive to buy every model.
01-25-2008, 05:51 AM   #34
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merge threats please

could one of the admins merge the this threat with that: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/19054-k1d-coming-before-end-2008-a.html
Seems like an obvious thing...


01-25-2008, 05:55 AM   #35
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Have you red that thread?

Doesn't seem obvious at all
01-25-2008, 06:00 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by and Quote
They said they will do a k1d??

Even tho I put my k10d for sale in anticipation of the announcemnt, I didnt manage to sell it and now I am leaning towards keeping it at least untill summer. I recently did a lot of lens selling and found that upgrading lenses can be quite positive if its done right, meaning that you dont loose too much when you sell so upgrading isnt that expensive. But I find that upgrading the body often is expensive because unlike the lenses the body drops in value like a brick.

So I think an interesting question for us k10d owners who are not 100% convinced that even tho the k20 has a better sensor is it worth the extra money, is: Will there be a k1d in mid 2008 so u can skip the k20 and wait for that. And/or will there be a k30d already next year with even further upgrades that will make it a step up from k10d in all aspects (if they keep the sensor next time and upgrade the af and all the other things that were left unchanged). It would be expensive to buy every model.
I think it's pretty much 100% sure that we won't see a K1D until 2009.

Maybe an announce at Kina 08 but more likely at PMA 09.

Pentax, even with collaboration of Samsung and Hoya is a SMALL company.

And now I should cover my crystal ball... I feel a big fiery eye is watching me...
01-25-2008, 06:04 AM   #37
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The interview makes clear that Pentax needs to address the mass market with entry-model cameras in order to draw enough money to develop a K*D.
01-25-2008, 06:21 AM   #38
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Anybody know about new lenses roadmap???

01-25-2008, 06:39 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Birdman Quote
I would like to take the opportunity to explain our product terms:
Kx = professionel segment (“Top of the Range Product”)
Kxx = semi-professionel
Kxxx = amateur
Kxxxx = entry-level"[/B][/I]
To me this sounds like a very good strategy, however I do think they somewhat underestimated the competition in the Kxxx level, with no life view, such a tiny buffer and less than optimal sensor.
01-25-2008, 07:16 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marcus Quote
Why entry level? A K200D... Lite? How much more simplified could it get? I can't imagine how much more entry level you can get than K200D. If you cut back on features, then it's just the K100D Super or K100D. At a user skill level that's even below the K200D, I can't see why anyone would buy interchangable lenses for the said camera. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

If they're not buying a K200D, then they don't want interchangable lenses. I can't see why someone wouldn't want to buy the K200D if they wanted to expand their photography with Pentax. There shouldn't be anything below amateur. I don't think there's anyone down there who doesn't want a point & shoot.
The problem with keeping the K100D in production may be that Sony might have made the last of those 6MP sensors, or cut back on production enough that only the allocation for Nikon's D40 are those that are being made.

I reckon there's still a market for a price point lower than the K200D. I'm thinking more of photography students et al, the same demographic that bought the K1000 years ago. I'm not sure about other countries, but from where I live, $800 is still serious money, even for those with regular jobs (minimum wage is pretty low here).

As well, it would be good to have a lower-priced entry-level camera for the burgeoning Chinese market. Getting a foothold in China would be big in the long run.

QuoteOriginally posted by CSpronken Quote
To me this sounds like a very good strategy, however I do think they somewhat underestimated the competition in the Kxxx level, with no life view, such a tiny buffer and less than optimal sensor.
As far as I know, Pentax has only so much resources at their disposal, and they tried to re-use as much of the old bodies as they can for the lower-end model, and concentrated most resources for the K20D.

Live view just isn't doable on the 10MP CCD, so that feature couldn't really be included. I'll reserve judgment on the IQ itself, as Pentax might have found some ways to improve on performance, much like Sony did with the A200.

The buffer, though, is a really sore point, and something they should have addressed by this time already. It's not as if they didn't know how to implement continuous JPEG shooting until the card is full. They do.
01-25-2008, 07:56 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marcus Quote
Why entry level? A K200D... Lite? How much more simplified could it get? I can't imagine how much more entry level you can get than K200D. If you cut back on features, then it's just the K100D Super or K100D. At a user skill level that's even below the K200D, I can't see why anyone would buy interchangable lenses for the said camera. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

If they're not buying a K200D, then they don't want interchangable lenses. I can't see why someone wouldn't want to buy the K200D if they wanted to expand their photography with Pentax. There shouldn't be anything below amateur. I don't think there's anyone down there who doesn't want a point & shoot.


Not true, there are still plenty of folks who'd like to make the move up from a P&S if they could get a body/lens kit for $400-$600. In fact, the market for people moving from P&S to entry level DSLR probably dwarfs the DSLR-->DSLR++ upgrade market by a huge margin. Take a look at volume sales for P&S's vs. DSLR to see the potential.

Getting someone to move from a P&S to your low-end DSLR model (vs. C/N/O/S) is a huge win, because that
puts them on a likely upgrade path to your higher-end models. Once LBA kicks in, they've got you :^)

Keeping the entry level even below K200D alive is a very smart move, IMO.



.

Last edited by jsherman999; 01-25-2008 at 08:03 AM.
01-25-2008, 07:56 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
The way I see it, the Pentax lineup is quite similar to the Nikon lineup... only they miss the >$1500 part.
Mmm yes it looks like a bit the same yes But they don't have the >$1500 camera(D300 class) which they need in my eyes.

QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
But I also see Pentax/Hoya/Samsung now able to direct R&D towards AF and fps and doing the same step in that category that they did with the imaging system on the K20 because now the sensor part is pretty much secured for the next 2 years.

Bingo! You got your D300 (and even D400 I think) concurent!

With that, Pentax will have a coherent lineup of 4 APS-C cameras with an equally excellent APS-C lens lineup and these will sell and earn money.
Well does this mean that the 'super-duper' model from Pentax is still a Semi-Pro dSLR than ?
I would like to see a Nikon D2/D3-series or Canon 1-series equivalent, with a built-in grip and so.
01-25-2008, 08:37 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lazar Quote

If a K1D is coming around mid-2008, I will skip the K20D and keep my K10D until the K1D is released... that's why I want to know.

Thanks
That is EXACTLY why they won't tell you. If they preannounce the product, then they will never sell the current product because everyone will be waiting, and they will go broke.

For my part, I off loaded my *istD to one of my daughters who was begging for it for Christmas so my bag has space for a K20 along side my K10, as the K20 has the things in it that hit the spot---a more robust sensor that from every report I've seen will deal better with high contrast lighting situtations better than its predecessors. That is the biggest single improvement in the digital cameras that I have wished for, and I believe tthe most universally useful, and it's there, so......
01-25-2008, 08:58 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
The problem with keeping the K100D in production may be that Sony might have made the last of those 6MP sensors, or cut back on production enough that only the allocation for Nikon's D40 are those that are being made.

I reckon there's still a market for a price point lower than the K200D. I'm thinking more of photography students et al, the same demographic that bought the K1000 years ago. I'm not sure about other countries, but from where I live, $800 is still serious money, even for those with regular jobs (minimum wage is pretty low here).

As well, it would be good to have a lower-priced entry-level camera for the burgeoning Chinese market. Getting a foothold in China would be big in the long run.
Yup, the D40 is kind of the K1000 of the digital era, only thing Pentax had to do was speed up the K100D, add RAW+JPG, brake the competition on price and they would've had a very nice K1000D for 2007 and 2008 (you could always have the 10mp if the 6mp sensor would go out of production). 6mp is okay with the right camera, there is a market for that, the D40 showed that. However the combination of 6mp AND slow if give it an air of old technology and that don't sell well.

QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
As far as I know, Pentax has only so much resources at their disposal, and they tried to re-use as much of the old bodies as they can for the lower-end model, and concentrated most resources for the K20D.

Live view just isn't doable on the 10MP CCD, so that feature couldn't really be included. I'll reserve judgment on the IQ itself, as Pentax might have found some ways to improve on performance, much like Sony did with the A200.
Yes, problem is the competition and costumers don't care about Pentax resources, they want a competitive product for the price. If the 10MP CCD doesn't do live view then use the new 14.6mp sensor with a decent buffer and sell it for about 899,- instead of 799,- or drop the price. Dropping the price will mess up the 4 product level thing though.


QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
The buffer, though, is a really sore point, and something they should have addressed by this time already. It's not as if they didn't know how to implement continuous JPEG shooting until the card is full. They do.
Yeah, although JPG compression might be slightly reduced compared to the K10D leading to larger files, there is no good reason for a 4 JPG buffer, since the K10D had a 9 images buffer in RAW.

Last edited by CSpronken; 01-25-2008 at 09:23 AM.
01-25-2008, 09:32 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
The way I see it, the Pentax lineup is quite similar to the Nikon lineup... only they miss the >$1500 part.

The only camera that was in the same class as the K10 was the D80.

The only camera that will be in the same class as the K20 will be the D90. Only for once, K20D precedes D90 (possibly for more than 6 months) instead of coming after AND it will have a different imaging system to set it appart.

Now think about the D90... what will it be like?

Guess: around $1000 body only, 12MP CMOS Sony (same as D300) no surprise here. 1/4000s shutter. LV. ... nothing on the K20 so far.

Comes to fps. D80 has 3fps, do you think D90 will have 5-6? But then why would you buy a D300 for? I vote for 4fps just to say they improved things.


So in all probabilities, Nikon is going to have REALLY hard time producing a D90 that has anything on the K20: Pentax has basically killed the D90 already!
About what I'd expect, although Nikon can always differentiate on AF, if they stick the D300's AF unit in the D90, just with less configurability (As the D80 had the D200's AF unit) then they'll have far and away the best AF in class. And note that the D300's IQ is similar to the K20D's, so the K20D won't have a huge advantage there. Of course the D90 will also have i-TTL/CLS. So I don't think the K20D will blow the D90 out of the water. The two bodies will be competitive, with the K20D offering sealing, SR and higher resolution and the D90 offering better AF, metering and flash capabilities.

QuoteQuote:
Of course, K20 will be compared to 40D/D300/A700/E3 on IQ and my guess is that it will stand its ground, maybe even better. It will come a bit short in the action photo dept., like K10 did compared to 30D/D200: no real news, it's a K20, not a K2.
Shouldn't have too many issues there. It simply stomps the 40D and E3, particularly the latter. The A700 and D300 will only give up a bit of resolution at low ISO, while the D300 can mostly keep up at high ISO's as well. ~2MP is not a huge resolution difference.


QuoteQuote:
So what will 2008-2009 offer us?

Well can anyone think that Pentax/Samsung are not going to capitalize on the sensor they have used more than 2 years of good R&D money to conceive and take to the market?

I see a K2000D with a 6-10MP around $500.

But I also see Pentax/Hoya/Samsung now able to direct R&D towards AF and fps and doing the same step in that category that they did with the imaging system on the K20 because now the sensor part is pretty much secured for the next 2 years.

Bingo! You got your D300 (and even D400 I think) concurent!

With that, Pentax will have a coherent lineup of 4 APS-C cameras with an equally excellent APS-C lens lineup and these will sell and earn money.

What will they do with their money then you ask?

Well, you're in luck, my crystal ball is on fire this morning!!!

Well they will release the 645D with a super duper ubber Samsung MF sensor of course . (OK it migh be a FF but it would make more sense to go B.I.G.)

How's that for seing the sunny side of things?
I'd generally concur.
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