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01-25-2008, 01:15 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by schufosi777 Quote
The K20d in my mind is not about selling more cameras than its competitiors, its about laying the foundations for Penatax digital Imagining as a whole. The new sensor is a Pentax design and represents the begining of a new era for Pentax. They have designed their own sensor and unlike other major camera companies they now do not have to rely on a second party for their sensors. This sensor will lay the foundation for future cameras. Its a vision. And I have alway seen Pentax as both an innovative and visionary company. Ok they could have put all their resources into 5ps and improving the Savox 8 . These areas can be judged or measured objectively and are more attractive to the intending buyer. More cameras would have been sold. However picture quality is purely subjective. How much better will the picture quality from this new sensor actually be vompared to the D40, A700,E3 and D90.....not noticeably at first but eventually the light will dawn.But unfortunately its totally subjective and really not a strong selling point. So we all have to see the big picture. This is the begining of somethng special. We now have the best sensor in the world. I n future Pentax can put other resources into FPS and Auto focus speed and accuracy to produce a camera without equal .....with the best sensor in the world.
i think i should just delete my huge post. you made the point much more clearly, and in a shorter way (which means somebody might actually read it ). i subscribe, this seems like merely the beginning. let's wait and see..

01-25-2008, 02:10 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
i think i should just delete my huge post. you made the point much more clearly, and in a shorter way (which means somebody might actually read it ). i subscribe, this seems like merely the beginning. let's wait and see..

I've been suspecting that this next-gen sensor might be the best currently existing sensor based on what I've read re the tech specs and patent, since codiac's (Chris's?) first post on 1/23, and because of some of the things Ben was implying with Hasselblad, etc, comparisons. A lot of people just considered it another checklist item in the specs, but I maintain that it's potentially much more important than that.

Whether or not it's the "best sensor in the world" is still an open question, but just consider the implications for Pentax if that's the case.

Anyone who considers photography important, pro or hobbyist, has to start salivating a little bit when they hear "best sensor in the world", and sales follow salivation, as we all can attest to. Already there are some folks in the Sony dpreview forum who seem a little shaken by the K20D, and are talking about changing to Pentax- one immediate example. I expect more of that will be happening.


This crappy little camera called the K20D, which is such a disappointment, such a 'coulda-been-contenda', could have just quietly set a standard.




.

Last edited by jsherman999; 01-25-2008 at 02:21 PM.
01-25-2008, 02:32 PM   #18
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Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the bets sensor in the world stuff. Best sensor in APS-C, maybe, hopefully. ch
01-25-2008, 02:55 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
This crappy little camera called the K20D, which is such a disappointment, such a 'coulda-been-contenda', could have just quietly set a standard.

Definitely not a first for Pentax either

01-25-2008, 04:07 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Crescent City Quote
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the bets sensor in the world stuff. Best sensor in APS-C, maybe, hopefully. ch
In another thread, I wrote that I had been perusing dozens of D300 images at 100% and that I found the quick and dirty snapshots from Ben's pre-production K20D to be far superior. I also took the time to check out images from the D3, and I must say that its IQ is superb, especially at very high ISOs. Of course, that camera costs $5,000 dollars. Still, at low ISOs, the K20D can give it stiff competition, and in its own class would appear to set the standard.

Rob

Last edited by robgo2; 01-27-2008 at 03:53 PM. Reason: grammar
01-25-2008, 04:23 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
This is what they are talking about:



with smaller and lower profile circuitry allowing reception of incident light at a larger angle.
Also resulting in bigger photosites and fill factor:
Thanks Nosnoop for these details - something real and concrete rather than opinions, opinions, opinions.. ad infinitum

Rod
01-25-2008, 05:00 PM   #22
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It's all about the "Pentax Plan"...

QuoteOriginally posted by schufosi777 Quote
...I have alway seen Pentax as both an innovative and visionary company...
Well, anyone who has done a business plan will tell you, you have to have a plan before you start a business and Pentax/Hoya would have one. I'm putting that lightly, some business plans venture far into the future. (We're talkin' decades here.) With that in mind, knowing there will be a new Pentax K-DSLR every year or so forever and a day...what is the end all, be all? Forward thinking, innovative and creative minds only ponder these visions. Where will we be after we exceed the optical limitations of our best glass lenses? Thoughts?

Last edited by digitalphil; 01-25-2008 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Clarity...
01-25-2008, 05:14 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by leadbelly Quote
With all the negativity about the K20D I read by Pentaxians, I guess it's true that "we are our own worst critic."
True that.

I think, to someone with an open mind (read: no fanboy-ism), this new camera is going to be hard to beat at the price.

01-25-2008, 05:53 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote

This crappy little camera called the K20D, which is such a disappointment, such a 'coulda-been-contenda', could have just quietly set a standard.

.
What, it's a solid body with no major weaknesses (If you think the AF is bad, spend some time with a D70. K10D's AF is adequate. Not stellar, but not bad either). And it looks to have the best IQ available short of a 1DsmII/mIII. Think of the Canon 5D, which was a superb sensor stuffed into a frankly adequate body. And look at the standard it set. I suspect the K20D will be Pentax's 5D. Sure it's not perfect, and a little more performance on the camera side of things would be nice. But it's a heck of a camera nonetheless. And it solves most of the issues that most shooters had with the K10D (PC Sync, almost-useless Image Tones, high ISO options/performance). Pentax has NEVER been a sports shooters brand. And if you think the K10D's AF is bad, spend a day with an MZ-5n, then realize that the MZ-5n had some of the best AF performance in a Pentax film SLR (only the MZ-S and *ist were better, and the latter not by much).
01-25-2008, 06:06 PM   #25
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Re: PC sync.

You know, everyone (it seemed) whined about the lack of a PC connection. I grabbed three or four PC-to-hotshoe adapters, and everything seems to work fine. They're like, $5 apiece. Throw a couple in your bag. You're MUCH more likely to need new replacement PC cords in the course of a shoot, anyway. PC cords are crap. Everyone (who uses them) knows it. It's really no wonder camera manufacturers were trying to get away from them. But going back to 40+ year old tech is considered progress? *shakes head* Well, the consumer "demanded" it.

At least the K20D still has a hot-shoe, so when the PC socket fails you can still connect to studio flash with a $5 accessory.
01-25-2008, 06:21 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by darthkir Quote
although i am personally very2 upset that pentax did not improve the AF speed of the k20d, i believe what you haves said is very true... i wish that this new sensor will mark a new successful beginning for pentax so they may introduce faster camera in the future which will be unequal...
Well, there will always be leapfrogging that will happen, so about a camera being unequaled, that could happen, but there would be another camera that will surpass that. The 1D series have been generally unequaled for a long time. Then the D3 came along.

QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
The big question is why do people take photo's?
It's to remember an occasion, so the better the picture the better the memory. only one percent of us do it for money and if you look at most of those shots they stink. So the new sensor may get rid of alot of the odor.
The new sensor is certainly a big help, but it won't solve the problems of poor composition, poor exposure (which I suspect will be the real cause of people complaining about noise et al in this new camera), etc.

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
*snip*
Anyone who considers photography important, pro or hobbyist, has to start salivating a little bit when they hear "best sensor in the world", and sales follow salivation, as we all can attest to. Already there are some folks in the Sony dpreview forum who seem a little shaken by the K20D, and are talking about changing to Pentax- one immediate example. I expect more of that will be happening.
*snip*
Sony didn't do itself favors by not reducing chroma noise in their camera. They have a good sensor, though they're quite lacking in the processing department.

Of course, that means more and more exorbitant prices for used lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
In another thread, I wrote that I had been perusing dozens of D300 images at 100% and that I found the quick and dirty snapshots from Ben's pre-production K20D to be far superior. I also took the time to check out images from the D3, and I must say that its IQ is superb, especially at very high ISOs. Of course, that camera costs $5,000 dollars. Still, at low ISOs, the K20D can give it stiff competition, and in its own class would appear to be the standard bearer.

Rob
I'm not sure about the K20D sensor being "far superior", but it certainly would give the Sony a run for its money.

QuoteOriginally posted by Duck Dodgers Quote
True that.

I think, to someone with an open mind (read: no fanboy-ism), this new camera is going to be hard to beat at the price.
Well, the GX-20, to my eyes, is hard to beat for the price, and that's even at RRP!
01-25-2008, 06:26 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by kay Quote
Agree with the OP fully!

One thing about the new sensor that everyone appears to be overlooking is the more direct light path in the new sensor - in several places, they claim "improved image quality from older lenses". Could this mean the end of CA? Nikon D300 users have been reporting vastly reduced CA from the same lenses that used to exhibit such problems in the D200. Perhaps Pentax knew of this upcoming sensor and that's why the focused on resolution at the expense of CA in designing the DA* zooms? If so, that would shut up quite a few critics of the DA* lenses, especially in the case of the DA* 16-50 f/2.8.
The more direct light path has shown to be effective in the 4/3 system, although in their case, they made the lenses telecentric, which is why most people have high regard for the Zuiko lenses (though not the format).

What Sony/Nikon and Pentax/Samsung did were certainly innovative, since they have to retain full compatibility with existing A-/K-/Nikon-mount lenses, as opposed to Olympus who had free reign to start from scratch, including lenses.
01-26-2008, 10:38 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Crescent City Quote
Lets not get ahead of ourselves with the bets sensor in the world stuff. Best sensor in APS-C, maybe, hopefully. ch
Maybe this sensor breaks a little the myth of full frame...price wise, at least. Why pay 2x [or more] the price for a 0.5x surface gain? Remember all the posters that asked for a full or at least 1.25x sensor? i don't think they won't ask that anymore...
01-26-2008, 08:02 PM   #29
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What is "the myth" of full frame? There is no myth - full frame is better than APS-C, since less enlargement = better IQ, and larger initial image size means any given print size needs less enlargement. APS-C sensors are with us for one reason only - cost; and that's a temporary issue since technology does not stand still. As technology progresses, sensors will get cheaper and full frame will become the rule as opposed to the exception. Right now, the APS-C digital SLRs are inefficient, since they are being used in conjunction with mounts big enough to be used with full frame. 35mm got its popularity by striking the right balance between the image size being large enough to maintain decent image quality in enlargements and in being compact enough to be easily carried. That balance hasn't disappeared just because of a switch from film to digital capture devices. Full frame will end up the rule and not the exception in the long run.
01-26-2008, 09:03 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by digitalphil Quote
..... some business plans venture far into the future. (We're talkin' decades here.) With that in mind, knowing there will be a new Pentax K-DSLR every year or so forever and a day...what is the end all, be all? ...... Where will we be after we exceed the optical limitations of our best glass lenses? Thoughts?

Was pondering along those lines the other day... I imagine that at some point we're going to be adding more electronics to the lenses themselves, maybe further out we'll be digitally enhancing the image in the lens to some degree... Possibly adding some sort of pre-sensor sensor stage as a sort step-up transformer for light. What finally hits the in-body sensor's going to be 'cooked light'.

02/04/2025, Pentax is pleased to announce the release of the new SMC DA* 10-600mm f/1.2 pancake-zoom lens, optimized for the new K*ist1000.....




.

Last edited by jsherman999; 01-26-2008 at 09:19 PM.
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