K20D and the big picture

nosnoop · 01-26-2008, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by 24X36NOW

APS-C sensors are with us for one reason only - cost; and that's a temporary issue since technology does not stand still. As technology progresses, sensors will get cheaper and full frame will become the rule as opposed to the exception.

I don't foresee any big drop in price for FF sensors. And APS-C will always hold a significant price advantage.

Judging by the IQ of K20D, and the potential further improvement of IQ of APS-C CMOS sensors, I just don't see any big market demand for FF sensors - are people asking to be able to shoot at ISO 25600? 20+MP?

Sure, there will be demand for such camera by enthusiasts and professionals, but they will remain a niche market.

Quote:

Right now, the APS-C digital SLRs are inefficient, since they are being used in conjunction with mounts big enough to be used with full frame.

True, but doesn't mean going back to FF is a good solution either.
The future of mass DSLR market will belong to EVIL (electronic view finder with interchangeable lens), and media device merging with HD camcorder, whether you like it or not. And we may well see a new lens mount at that time. Sure we will continue to have DSLR with mirror box (or hybrid optical/electronic view finder as in the patent) for semi-pro market. Yes, FF will still be around, and it will continue to be a niche product for the pro market.

zntgrg · 01-27-2008, 04:15 AM

The enlargement question is a film related problem: yes, medium format gets better quality through a larger negative...[i know this, sometimes i shoot with a Rolleiflex] but in digital the negative is the output file, the size of the sensor doesn't really count that much for printing.
It's only advantage is having larger photosites to improve IQ and more of them to improve resolution.

The question is: It's possible to do an APS-C sized sensor with quite the same quaility of full frame?

Now, K20d sensor squeeze large photosites cutting waste space between them...i don't know the gain, but if they could get a +150% of space optimization you'll get really the same thing. To me it's more important the ability of its photosites to capture angled light rays, since it's a very important difference between film and digital.

Bridge cameras weren't diyng? I hope not for Fujifilm, to me a really smart brand

Maybe we'll see abandon of the prism even on high end models.

robgo2 · 01-27-2008, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by 24X36NOW

What is "the myth" of full frame? There is no myth - full frame is better than APS-C, since less enlargement = better IQ, and larger initial image size means any given print size needs less enlargement.

Actually, I don't think that the superiority of a larger sensor has anything to do with how much enlargement is necessary to make a print. That paradigm applies to film, but not digital sensors. In the digital world, resolution is purely a function of how many photosites are on the sensor. The limiting factor in terms of IQ is the size of the individual photosites. Here, bigger is better, because of a greater capacity to collect photons. And it follows that a larger sensor has room for larger photosites

Rob

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
BIG ZOOM FOR K20D	charliezap	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	3	01-23-2010 10:17 PM
First K20d picture!	Plankton	Post Your Photos!	10	07-10-2009 07:37 AM
New K20D - (not quite) The First Picture	Sailor	Pentax DSLR Discussion	8	12-26-2008 09:55 PM
First K20D Picture	2many	Post Your Photos!	2	04-03-2008 10:20 AM
First K20D Picture	patrickmedina	Pentax News and Rumors	14	01-18-2008 08:32 PM

01-26-2008, 11:17 PM	#31
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by 24X36NOW APS-C sensors are with us for one reason only - cost; and that's a temporary issue since technology does not stand still. As technology progresses, sensors will get cheaper and full frame will become the rule as opposed to the exception. I don't foresee any big drop in price for FF sensors. And APS-C will always hold a significant price advantage. Judging by the IQ of K20D, and the potential further improvement of IQ of APS-C CMOS sensors, I just don't see any big market demand for FF sensors - are people asking to be able to shoot at ISO 25600? 20+MP? Sure, there will be demand for such camera by enthusiasts and professionals, but they will remain a niche market. Quote: Right now, the APS-C digital SLRs are inefficient, since they are being used in conjunction with mounts big enough to be used with full frame. True, but doesn't mean going back to FF is a good solution either. The future of mass DSLR market will belong to EVIL (electronic view finder with interchangeable lens), and media device merging with HD camcorder, whether you like it or not. And we may well see a new lens mount at that time. Sure we will continue to have DSLR with mirror box (or hybrid optical/electronic view finder as in the patent) for semi-pro market. Yes, FF will still be around, and it will continue to be a niche product for the pro market.

01-27-2008, 04:15 AM	#32
zntgrg Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Verona, Italy Posts: 202	The enlargement question is a film related problem: yes, medium format gets better quality through a larger negative...[i know this, sometimes i shoot with a Rolleiflex] but in digital the negative is the output file, the size of the sensor doesn't really count that much for printing. It's only advantage is having larger photosites to improve IQ and more of them to improve resolution. The question is: It's possible to do an APS-C sized sensor with quite the same quaility of full frame? Now, K20d sensor squeeze large photosites cutting waste space between them...i don't know the gain, but if they could get a +150% of space optimization you'll get really the same thing. To me it's more important the ability of its photosites to capture angled light rays, since it's a very important difference between film and digital. Bridge cameras weren't diyng? I hope not for Fujifilm, to me a really smart brand Maybe we'll see abandon of the prism even on high end models.

01-27-2008, 04:08 PM	#33
robgo2 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico Photos: Albums Posts: 1,125	Originally posted by 24X36NOW What is "the myth" of full frame? There is no myth - full frame is better than APS-C, since less enlargement = better IQ, and larger initial image size means any given print size needs less enlargement. Actually, I don't think that the superiority of a larger sensor has anything to do with how much enlargement is necessary to make a print. That paradigm applies to film, but not digital sensors. In the digital world, resolution is purely a function of how many photosites are on the sensor. The limiting factor in terms of IQ is the size of the individual photosites. Here, bigger is better, because of a greater capacity to collect photons. And it follows that a larger sensor has room for larger photosites Rob