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01-25-2008, 10:21 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by roscot Quote
"You can satisfy all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can not satisfy all of the people all of the time."
You forgot one... "And there are some people you can satisfy NONE of the time."

01-25-2008, 10:29 AM   #17
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There are also some people that are satisfied and that think that there is no need to expend 700USD extra to get the K20D over the K10D
01-25-2008, 10:32 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gruoso Quote
There are also some people that are satisfied and that think that there is no need to expend 700USD extra to get the K20D over the K10D
only those that have purchased a K10D recently..

as someone who purchased a used K100D for 300 dollars, jumping straight into a K20D is hardly a concern

others thats spent close to 900~1000 dollars on the K10D before its sharp decline into the 699 territory are grumbling right now i am quite sure.
01-25-2008, 10:36 AM   #19
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Pentax knows their market, what they can sell and still make a profit, thus the K20D and the K200D. They are a step toward the future of the Pentax digital line. Let's face it their new image sensor kicks ass and they designed it.

As for people's responses, take a look at another company, namely Apple. They announce some really nice products (which most people expected due to leaked info) and then report the most profitable quarter in the history of the company and have something live $13 billion in cash reserves and short term inverstments. What happens? People still moan and their stock drops 13% in 3 days.

"You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." - A. Lincoln

01-25-2008, 11:12 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
only those that have purchased a K10D recently..

as someone who purchased a used K100D for 300 dollars, jumping straight into a K20D is hardly a concern

others thats spent close to 900~1000 dollars on the K10D before its sharp decline into the 699 territory are grumbling right now i am quite sure.
Have you consider the possibility of other people using that money for other things?
01-25-2008, 11:42 AM   #21
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Why do people seem to want to Bash Pentax all the time, is it because its NOT a Canikon?

I will wait until some objective tests are forthcoming (and Not DPR). Basically Amateur Photographer and Photography Monthly, as both mags are not biased to the usual suspects. in fact both liked the K10D, and indeed Will Cheung - editor - of photography monthly, loves the GX-10 he is using. Also Amateur Photographer put the K10D in their shortlist of Best Semi Pro cameras for 2008 (only beaten by the 40D).

Personally I would have liked more AF points ala D300, but remeber the EOS 5D only has 9 AF points and users still rave about the camera, mainly because of the IQ, remember this came out in 2005!

Also, more fps would have been nice (maybe about 5 or 6) but of course at the time Pentax do not have the R&D resources to develop these as well, so concentrated on what is important which is the IQ. Indeed in this thread someone mentioned about so called "experts" bashed the IQ at ISO1600 on the K10D, but I have to say the IQ at ISO1600 is far better on my K10D than my *IST DS at ISO800..

So for me, I like the look of the K20D, and has some very useful features that I would have, such as better Dynamic range, HDR feature, and PC Sync (at LAST!) and it would appear, a far more user friendly Live view than even the D300 can manage (not that I would use it much, but nice to have). In fact one thing I really like is the dust detector which shows the dust in live view, why no-one else has not done this I have no idea......

So for me, I like the look of this camera, and indeed if the IQ is all it is cracked up to be, then I will be purchasing one.

Lets hope that it is a real success, and once the Hoya deal is finalised, so the R&D budget is increased accordingly, then maybe the K30D that will probably appear in 2009/2010 will have the extra AF points that some people crave, and faster FPS, which the CMOS will certainly give you.

Finally, for all those bashers, remember what do you want in a camera? loads of speed of exceptional IQ which the competition will envy. for me, it is the latter every time. (the former is a bonus)
01-25-2008, 11:45 AM   #22
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This is the first time I have been around for a 'new' release of such magnitude. I am not a 30+ year Pentax loyalist though I have owned more Pentaxes than other cameras by default I suppose. The K10D being the first SLR I've ever had.

I feel torn between thinking the camera is going to be great for 'most' of what I want but lacking in a few things I also wanted....my hope was a camera I could use at weddings and in the field with birding. And perhaps I still can. The K10D has done pretty well considering the glass I can afford to put in front of the sensor. (It's wedding use where I wondered if it would work well)

At least here I can say that most have been nice about voicing concerns and I cannot say that for everywhere and I found myself defending those that were concerned (as I was) but at the same time wanting to give the new camera a chance....

What has bugged me the most thus far (elsewhere) is feeling that my skills as a photographer are poor because I had hoped for improved speed...for me those statements are tough to swallow considering how hard I work at getting the best from my K10D and Bigma (what I can currently afford) At least here I feel that those in the know do understand that there are legitimate uses for faster speeds other than my ineptitude...which is why I like it here...

It's just funny in the field I have other brand users ask why I am not shooting C or N and try to convince me to switch and then over the last couple of days I hear P users basically telling other P users "leave if you don't like it"...just makes me shake my head...

Since starting out late last year I have really enjoyed learning photography and in one year, I had over 26,000 hits on my photos (at flickr) made (mostly) by the K10D....sure I pushed the button but I think that says A LOT for the camera too...

Talk about a bi-polar day....

I guess we won't all be sitting around singing "Coumbaya" any more!
01-25-2008, 12:01 PM   #23
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QuoteQuote:
What happens? People still moan and their stock drops 13% in 3 days.
According to the analysts the reason for the drop was because they didn't meet their own projections.

01-25-2008, 12:10 PM   #24
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Regarding the title and sentiment of the OP... it reminds me of the joke, "Doctor it hurts when I do this..." to which the doctor responds "Well don't do that".
01-25-2008, 12:16 PM   #25
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Nice thread Paul. I did a wedding a couple of years back with my DS and Kit lens, and one of the guests (armed with a Canon 400D) was wondering why I was using a Pentax (whilst feeling superior i might add), I told him that the Pentax that is a very underrated camera and will produce excellent images. Typical us Pentax users seem to have to defend Pentax....

However, the results were great and the Bride and Groom loved the final images.

On the other hand, now I have the K10D and Battery grip, along with a manfrotto and some good lenses, people now ask if I am a pro photographer, just by looking at the kit. (I am not BTW - yet....LOL)
One time I was taking photos at a recent car art show in Manchester, and a Guy just came up to me and said take a photo of him by one of the cars. He assumed that I was a photo journalist just by the K10D, battery grip and Sigma 24-70 F2.8 Lens I had. It was a nice feeling that someone would say that, because of the kit I had.

Also I am a member of an online photo club, and most users are either C or N users, and even they are impressed with the K10D and its abilities, in fact even 5D and D200 users have handled my K10D and like it - something there it seems..
They just seem to bash each other (verbally in good humour) whilst I just sit there getting on with it.....lol

So if you want sing along with me coumbaya arond a camp fire, knowing that Pentax is beginning to get a good reputation, then lets go for it.

all together now coumbaya my lord......
01-25-2008, 12:42 PM   #26
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quietly watching

somebody in this thread has hit me right between the eyes. yup, i admit it, i am one of those. i have been watching for weeks, sharing the same excitment and anticipation as everybody, maybe being more amused rather than "into it" compared to others, but still..

so here is the point of view of a "stalker".

first of all, it was clear to me a few days before the release, based on the comments of some people in the know.. that the bomb will be the sensor and the overall image quality. it was obvious, i am not proud or anything, what i mean to say is that, at that point, the excitment for what's to come grew beyond my previous expectations. maybe it's because i come from shooting manual focus slr's, from a praktica mtl3 (remeber those, anyone?) to an old minolta, seagull tlr, pentacon six and so on. the nikon d50 was my first dslr, and my first af camera. i never thought i'd like af, i did. i switched to the k100d for reasons i explained elswhere, i would have liked the k10d, but i was not confident on the 10mp sensor, and i didn't quite have the cash at the time. for what it's worth, i don't feel the d50's af is any better than the k100d, sorry, folks. oh, btw, i shot rallyes, track races (both cars and motorcycles) on several occasions with both, lately even side by side. same shit. only the pentax has 9 cross type sensors, which to me is very usefull. i didn't get 1 shot in 10 in focus, as so many people tend to suggest, i did get barely 1 in 10 composed correctly, for instance, though, and most of the time it was my stupidity, not the k100d's, which decided the faith of the shot. i never shot in burstmode at a rally, for a very simple reason: things happen too quick, and i never saw chance as being my best friend. i don't play the lottery.

now i am patiently waiting for the reviews on this new sensor, and drooling in expectation. yes, i shoot mostly landscapes, i hate the dinamic range of "digital", so maybe that's why. meanwhile, i am trying desperately to find the means to get a k10d, because i just love the body. i would love the k20d, but it's just too soon for my pocket

so has pentax "shot itslef in the foot"? well, we cannot know yet, can we, but assuming the sensor is as good as benjikan and codiac are leading us to believe, assuming the af is just as good as the k10d (yes, i said as _good_, sic), let's see what we have: an aps-c dslr which challenges ff dlsrs for image quality.. yaaawn, boring. oh, wait, those x000usd ones? those monsters nobody (let's be realistic) can afford. and they are about to actually make money selling them, unlike canon which, i think it's safe to say, has been selling them just "because we can"? ofcourse the guys i saw at the track race firing their machineguns attached to huge /2.8 L lenses will never buy a k20d. however.. they would not buy it if it was everything those monsters are, and some more, at a better price, not in the first two or three years, because they are not even _checking_ the market for anything else, i am sure. guys like me will either shoot an eos350d (or whatever it is these days), or 30d, or a nikon d50/80, or a pentax k100/k10 (and now k20), and have fun while at it. some other guys make money shooting k10d's, and don't appologise for doing so. sure fps and faster af can allways be usefull, but honestly, we have been waiting for more than a decade for digital to catch up with the good old film, at an affordable price, we have been waiting so long that most of us strongly, rationaly believe it is just not possible, not in our lifetime (look around, it's been going all these years towards faster af, fps, more mp's, and image quality has been reaching it's limit, on an asympthotic curve), nobody gave a shit about it, and now pentax, the one noone has ever heard about (you know what i mean) comes out saying "eeehrm, excuse me.. we have something here which might be of interest, if you care to have a look..". and now, all of a sudden, we start thinking "hm.. so that's why there's no ff capable lens anymore, so... oh, shit, what would this mean for the 645d, if it ever comes true? what would a sensor like that of such a size perform like?"

think about it: af is no big deal, and pentax have had fast and accurate AF for ages, everybody has, nothing to invent there, maybe some rainy friday afternoon, when some pentax egineers are really bored, one will say "hey, guys, how about that af thinggie we talked about? come on, we have 2 more hours to burn, let's finish the damn thing, and in the remaining 1h1/2 we can have some beers at the pub" , however, if pentax has managed to come through with this new sensor, as something really amazing and that everybody has been waiting for, than yes, i will call that "a bomb".

okay, time to wake up now, he's DONE!!

ps: i am more and more intrigued about this af ranting. how _bad_ is it? i mean, k100d is good, not brilliant, but i know for a fact it is considerably slow compared to a k10d with the same lens. i need to get a 400d/40d and shoot some rally (allthough if it's the 400d, i will need my k100d to go back to after 10 minutes, so as not to go insane ), and get to the bottom of this mis(t)ery
01-25-2008, 12:47 PM   #27
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shit, it's long!

aye.. hope nobody injures himslef falling. (asleep, that is)
01-25-2008, 12:58 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by offertonhatter Quote
Nice thread Paul. I did a wedding a couple of years back with my DS and Kit lens, and one of the guests (armed with a Canon 400D) was wondering why I was using a Pentax (whilst feeling superior i might add), I told him that the Pentax that is a very underrated camera and will produce excellent images. Typical us Pentax users seem to have to defend Pentax....

However, the results were great and the Bride and Groom loved the final images.
Wedding shooters have embraced the Fuji S5 even though it is slow focusing, 3fps (only 1.5 fps in Extended DR), 2.5" screen. Why? IMAGE QUALITY. It isn't even a true 12MP.

The only problem Pentax has right now is keeping up with demand for more glass.
01-25-2008, 01:49 PM   #29
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Hi Folks
I have spent a small fortune on Pentax these past few years. 3 bodies and 19 lenses along with many accessories..So when the new K20D was released, I was a tiny bit disappointed, no allot of bit disappointed in it..I was not really happy with what I was reading as there was too much negativity being said...Well after looking at this video
Pentax K20D video - Photography & Digital Camera Forums
I quickly changed my mind and became very excited about buying one of these new K20D...
Pentax is Guilty of lousy advertising but not a lousy product...This video went on to explain many of the cool features that I have not read mentioned here or else place...So before you throw out the baby with the bath water, consider the cost of it next to a D300 or 5d.

It is my opinion that if the K20D in addition to what it is, had the auto focus and fps of a canon or nikon but cost $1800.00- 2200.00 bucks, the same folks would find something else to complain about like the cost or it's the wrong color. It should be green or camouflaged to blend in with the surroundings or something...

Last edited by jgredline; 01-25-2008 at 02:06 PM.
01-25-2008, 01:59 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbmiller Quote
Wedding shooters have embraced the Fuji S5 even though it is slow focusing, 3fps (only 1.5 fps in Extended DR), 2.5" screen. Why? IMAGE QUALITY. It isn't even a true 12MP.

The only problem Pentax has right now is keeping up with demand for more glass.
I know what you mean, but my clients were very happy with the results. hopefully Pentax will invest in great optics (although the sigma EX and Tamron SP are good) and Pentax seem to be answering the call with the new 35mm Limited and the 200mm and 300mm limited. but again they don't has the R&D to match Canon and Nikon. but things seems to be changing.
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