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01-25-2008, 07:31 AM   #1
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My eyes are hurting!

Having read every thread here and at DPR, plus press releases and first reviews, etc., I will need to take a nap now to give my eyes a rest.:ugh:

I've come to the conclusion, based on all that reading, that Pentax is in big trouble. They have missed the mark, have made serious errors in judgment, have shot themselves in the foot, well you get the picture.

My OPINION is that the overwhelming response to the two new cameras is negative. Even many who I previously thought would never say anything negative about Pentax are expressing their disappointment.

Offsetting this we have a few hardy souls saying:

"I've already pre-ordered. I had my mind made up before there were even any specs. or good comparison photos available. After all the IQ is better than any camera ever made!".

"Anyone who has ever bought a Pentax camera expecting that at some time Pentax would provide accurate, fast AF and a high FPS rate were basically stupid. Did they not KNOW Pentax has no interest in these two little-desired features?"

"Buy the Nikon or Canon or Oly, then! Pentax does not need you as customers!"

"If you need more FPS and an effective AF system- you obviously have no talent."

"Just wait. Pentax is releasing new cameras in the near future that will make you come crawling back into the fold."

"Now that Pentax has Hoya fully backing them with their huge resources, Pentax technology will grow in leaps and bounds. Just be patient."

I'd like to keep adding to this list, only half prepared with tongue in cheek, unfortunately, but I seriously must give my tired eyes a rest so I can get out this afternoon (decent light today for a change) and take some photos.

01-25-2008, 07:49 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
I seriously must give my tired eyes a rest so I can get out this afternoon (decent light today for a change) and take some photos.
Some what? Oh, I'm sorry, you thought this was a photography forum...
01-25-2008, 07:58 AM   #3
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haha - I do feel for the poor souls researching a new DSLR now. The internet can be invaluable researching a product, however it is also a place where a lot of people whom claim to be 'experts' bashing everything. Didn't everyone’s Mom teach them "if you have nothing nice to say ......"

I have not read much - I did watch the you tube video and saw some features that looked great some I would have no interest in.

I hope the K20D/K200D does well. I hope Pentax does well. As I have read here many times and said myself there are at least a half dozen or more camera systems that will meet 99% of most of our needs.

I don't think I will get a K20D , then again I might - but if I do this forum in particular will be invaluable - however the other 70% of the decision will be mine based on my trips to the stores to check it out and play. Everyone has their own reasons for upgrading , but I am willing to bet certainly some are for the 'technical advances' in the new bodies but at least as much if not more is justifying the need versus want.
01-25-2008, 08:03 AM   #4
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I don't know about other ppl, but for me.. I don't really care about how ppl think about the new camera.. We have the specifications got listed out, sample photos on the net... those are enough for everyone to judge how is the camera and decide if it worth the price. Especially eveyone weight different feature differently.

01-25-2008, 08:03 AM   #5
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"You can satisfy all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can not satisfy all of the people all of the time."

I guess you weren't around about this time last year, when all the hullabaloo about the K10D and Hi ISO noise and VPN broke out. That period was vicious, and is what drove me away from DPR.

Frankly, I'm sitting on top of the fence with this one. I'll wait for the camera to get in some experienced users hands, and for the reviews. I've no budget for a new body in the 1st half of this year anyway. If it proves true that this sensor is as good as Pentax says, then Pentax has succeeded in separating them selves from the pack. This might be a very good body for my type of work. If I can get ISO 1000-1200 that looks like 400 on my K10D, then it would solve some of my shooting issues.

But consider this. If Pentax had just upped the frame rate, put a 3" LCD, maybe speed up the AF, then all the K20D would be is another mid range DSLR with nothing to differentiate it form the pack. I doubt Pentax would gain any new customers from the Canikon or the P&S crowd. It would have nothing to offer over them. At least this way, there will be a clear difference.
01-25-2008, 08:13 AM   #6
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i think the new K20D is going to be a monster

at the end of the day IQ matters most, and IQ it will have.
01-25-2008, 08:14 AM   #7
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Tom, I too felt this way yesterday and on numerous ocassions tried to make logical comments about it in a few different threads (on dpr) and was basically bashed in the same way you mention. I've given up and have just decided, after a night of sleep, that I honestly don't really care so why keep trying to argue about it.

I've got other hobbies to keep me busy and in the grand scheme of things, the success or failure of the K20D just really doesn't mean that much to me anyway. The world still turns, my little 2 year old still loves me, and my K10D is still working just fine.

I've diverted my attention to other things and have been doing my best to just let the threads go and forget about them.

Good luck with the sleep.

Greg



QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
Having read every thread here and at DPR, plus press releases and first reviews, etc., I will need to take a nap now to give my eyes a rest.:ugh:

I've come to the conclusion, based on all that reading, that Pentax is in big trouble. They have missed the mark, have made serious errors in judgment, have shot themselves in the foot, well you get the picture.
01-25-2008, 08:14 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote

My OPINION is that the overwhelming response to the two new cameras is negative. Even many who I previously thought would never say anything negative about Pentax are expressing their disappointment.
This is just typical and inevitable internet forum backlash for something which ended up having quite a bit of prerelease hype. I guarantee you'll see the same thing when Apple releases the iPhone Version Two.

Everyone who has actually seen and used the thing has only positive things to say. Let's wait on the total doom and gloom until the product is actually generally available.


Last edited by mattdm; 01-25-2008 at 08:39 AM.
01-25-2008, 08:19 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by roscot Quote
But consider this. If Pentax had just upped the frame rate, put a 3" LCD, maybe speed up the AF, then all the K20D would be is another mid range DSLR with nothing to differentiate it form the pack. I doubt Pentax would gain any new customers from the Canikon or the P&S crowd. It would have nothing to offer over them. At least this way, there will be a clear difference.
I agree with you. If Pentax had simply tried to match the specs of comparable Nikons and Canons, there would be no reason to buy the K20D. Why go with the lesser known brand if it's not really that much different from the more established brands and there's not much of a price difference? By going the route that they did, Pentax gave future DSLR buyers a choice...where do you want your dollars to go? Towards quicker autofocusing and higher fps that matches other cameras in that price range? Or would you prefer your money go towards image quality that's on a par with cameras costing 3 times as much?
01-25-2008, 08:25 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
(snip)

at the end of the day IQ matters most, and IQ it will have.
I've got to agree with you there.
01-25-2008, 08:46 AM   #11
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IQ

In my business what is important is image quality. I also love the mobility associated with a lighter tool than the cumbersome 'Blads. If I have any reservations in regards to IQ for a specific job that requires that I use the Blad to satisfy the insecurity of a client, I will relent. Otherwise for all of my Magazine (not advertising) Editorials, I will use the K20D with complete confidence. I am not a paparazzi shooter, nor a sports shooter, therefore 3.3 fps is more than adequate.

Ben
01-25-2008, 09:00 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
I'd like to keep adding to this list, only half prepared with tongue in cheek, unfortunately, but I seriously must give my tired eyes a rest so I can get out this afternoon (decent light today for a change) and take some photos.
Good idea you lucky guy! (I am stuck at work for at least 2 more hours...)


But you realize that these (over) reactions are normal and occuring each time a new camera is released don't you?

I feel your pain, you were expecting to get a D300 rival and you got a D90 one, definitely not the same as far as action shooting is concerned.

Me..? I was waiting for a K10 replacement and that's just what I got so I'm OK.

I am not sure if I am going to buy the K20 but if IQ is really significantly higher than K10 (I am not interested in other brands performances since I have only Pentax glass) I surely will.

As for the doom of Pentax: they are big boys and can take care of themselves, they have been doomed for the past 20 years, I imagine they'll go another year or two.
01-25-2008, 09:07 AM   #13
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I hate to read all this voices who expect 1Dmk3 for 1500$ price range.
After reading reviews, looking at photos i think , as for cheap DSLR i think pentax did good. Not excellent/ground braking , but good.
But there is noone who can please everyoone.Of course some more improvement like faster sync speed, faster fps (witch i use only ocasional), faster AF would be nice. But i can live without it, as i did till now. Also i dont belive they dont tweak them for K20D.
IQ as ISO100-200 is what convince me to K10D combined with ergonomy of the body.
IQ of K20D is that what is most importand for me, thats why im going to get one as soon as they will be avilible.
01-25-2008, 09:08 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote

My OPINION is that the overwhelming response to the two new cameras is negative. Even many who I previously thought would never say anything negative about Pentax are expressing their disappointment....
It is possible that the K20 bashing going on in these forums based on the specs and before the product release, is coming from a vocal minority comprising those needing higher fps and faster AF. These opinions may or may not reflect the views of a silent majority who have either made up their minds / do not consider the higher fps/AF a priority or have a wait and watch attitude.

Ultimately the sales numbers should speak for themselves.
01-25-2008, 09:31 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
I will use the K20D with complete confidence. I am not a paparazzi shooter, nor a sports shooter, therefore 3.3 fps is more than adequate.
I'll almost certainly buy one too, about 6-9 months after they come out.

Even when I'm shooting moving objects, I usually take only one frame, so 3.3fps is more than enough for me too. If I wanted to capture video, I'd get a video camera, and where's the skill in just going rat-tat-tat at 6+fps and hoping that you've got something useful?

Even with exposures of 1/200s, say, a 20-shot burst over 3 seconds, still only captures a tenth of a second of actual action - the shutter is only open for 3% of the time, which doesn't sound like great odds to me if I'm hoping to get something fleeting.

Most of the time, the AF is fast enough for me too, so if it's even a bit quicker than the K10D's with the 20D's tweaks, it'll probably be enough improved to make a difference. I suspect a faster lens such as the 16-50 would make more of a difference to my low-light AF requirements anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised if people's subjective experience of the K20D's low-light AF accuracy and speed turns out to be worse, in fact, that the K10D's - since with ISO 6400 people will be taking pictures in even less light than they do with the '10. And of course, the camera doesn't use the sensor to focus. So if it's even as good, it'll be better, if you know what I mean.
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