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01-25-2008, 11:21 AM   #1
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K20D LiveView and AF, the positive side

Hi,

after reading the massive posts about K20D there seems to be a point which may be an underestimated feature in this new model:

Manual focus support by using the 8x or 10x magnified LiveView.

I guess this should solve my current problems to get exact focus with my better resolving lenses (e.g., a ZEISS Planar T* 1,4/50 ZK which is an A rather than FA lens anyway). Whereas this lens still will outperform a 14.6 MPixel sensor it is nevertheless extremely demanding on exact focus!

Therefore I highly welcome two K20D features:
- 10x magnified LiveView (giving me a 1:1 focus preview!), for my A lenses.
- automated focus series (much like exposure series, just focus now), for my FA/DA lenses.

For me actually, this is enough progress in the focus area to want a K20D.

And, as my topic title suggests, I ignore the lack of AF in LiveView here ;-)

01-25-2008, 11:25 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Hi,

after reading the massive posts about K20D there seems to be a point which may be an underestimated feature in this new model:

Manual focus support by using the 8x or 10x magnified LiveView.

I guess this should solve my current problems to get exact focus with my better resolving lenses (e.g., a ZEISS Planar T* 1,4/50 ZK which is an A rather than FA lens anyway). Whereas this lens still will outperform a 14.6 MPixel sensor it is nevertheless extremely demanding on exact focus!

...

For me actually, this is enough progress in the focus area to want a K20D.


Yes!!! We'll have to se if the 8x or 10x magnification gives you enough resolution to nail manual focus, better than your eyes + viewfinder that is, but if it can, this is huge, IMO.




.
01-25-2008, 11:41 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
... We'll have to se if the 8x or 10x magnification gives you enough resolution to nail manual focus, better than your eyes + viewfinder that is...
To any of the lucky users of a K20D then:
Did you use this feature, did it help?
01-25-2008, 11:48 AM   #4
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For macro or landscape shots, with the 'cam on a tripod, LiveView could be quite handy.
Especially for macro where the short focus distance gives such a tiny depth-of-field.

01-25-2008, 11:59 AM   #5
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A few points about LV even if I'm not a big fan of it.. And a quick blurb about AF..

LiveView - When you're shooting macro you tend to have your eye in the viewfinder longer than normal straining very hard to make sure you have a sharp focus because, as we all know, soft macro shots are not very nice.. With LiveView, you won't have to strain your eye as much and still be able to get very sharp focus. I can see this as a benefit.

I don't see any other practical use for it other than for folks who have poor eyesight or struggle using the ViewFinder with glasses, etc.. Which mind you, is a good use if you are one of those people.

AF - This discussion is so beaten to death I think the horse is already pushing up daisies. The addition of removing (oxymoron alert) the re-check focus when using the 'trap-focus' mode should be a delight. It should be as fast if not faster than anything available - instantaneous focus and capture. They mention 11 AF points - These AF points are used for tracking. They also made mention of improvements to these 11 AF points. Maybe they've increased the area for each point by a factor of 5 and created a pseudo 55-point AF..
01-25-2008, 12:03 PM   #6
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As an ex-prosumer owner (Konica Minolta A200) I welcome the increased introduction of Live View to DSLRs, it definitely has some uses & only adds to the flexibility of the DSLR.

However I personally don't find the current Live View functionality too much of an attraction and will wait until it undergoes more development.

What I'm really waiting for is Live histogram in the Viewfinder & definitely an articulating LCD (without which Live View is greatly limited)

simon
01-25-2008, 02:04 PM   #7
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One BIG use for live view is- believe it or not- astrophotography. I was shooting the moon with a telescope last night, and it was impossible to get acceptable focus in the finder. Give me 10x magnification LV, and I doubt I would have any problem.
01-25-2008, 02:12 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by JMS Quote
One BIG use for live view is- believe it or not- astrophotography. I was shooting the moon with a telescope last night, and it was impossible to get acceptable focus in the finder. Give me 10x magnification LV, and I doubt I would have any problem.
Pardon my ignorance, but isn't the moon, for all intents and purposes, at "infinity"?

01-25-2008, 02:21 PM   #9
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I think Live View can come in handy for more than just for what has been pointed out in this thread.

I don't agree with the line of thinking that says Live View is really only a gimmick or that it doesn't belong in a professional camera.

If it's an option that you can turn off/on whenever you choose than what's the harm. It can be very useful.. I mean say you're in a crowd of people and you can't see over the heads of the people in front...wadda ya do? Bust out the ladder you carry on your back at all times for just such an occasion? Maybe give your camera to the 7ft biker next to you, who only has three fingers on his right hand, so he can take the shot? Probably not...my guess is we hold the camera over our head and start snapping away hoping we get lucky with one of our 25 shots attempts.

If you've got Live View to turn on then, by just holding the camera above your head, you have a much better chance of getting a decent capture by looking at the lcd screen to compose the shot. I think Live view is only a gimmick if you're forced to use it rather than a viewfinder.
01-25-2008, 02:28 PM   #10
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The focus beep confirmation is already pretty accurate with manual focusing but i guess if you really wanted to fine tune it (especially for macro) this would be a very handy feature.
01-25-2008, 02:42 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by jms698 Quote
Pardon my ignorance, but isn't the moon, for all intents and purposes, at "infinity"?
So pardoned. There are a couple reasons that you can't just focus at infinity:

1. The telescope I was using had a 2000mm focal length.
2. Telescopes have to be adaptable to many formats. Infinity focus for one format isn't necessarily infinity in another format.
01-25-2008, 02:44 PM   #12
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For me, Live View will come in handy most when I am on a tripod trying to get perfect focus on a product or macro shot. Manual focus in magnified live view sounds wonderful. Perfect focus every time.
01-25-2008, 04:29 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by JMS Quote
The telescope I was using had a 2000mm focal length.
The Celestron C8 2000mm/f10 ?

Yes, you are right, with LV, improved ISO and improved SR it should now be possible to shoot free hand, right?

And you are right, it is a pain to focus telescopes. People tend to use a splitter with extra web cam to focus and track. So ideally, the LV would not blank out while taking the photo in bulb mode and deliver the LV image over USB as well. Ehhh, just dreaming ...

Good point, though
Thanks
01-26-2008, 03:56 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Hi,

after reading the massive posts about K20D there seems to be a point which may be an underestimated feature in this new model:

Manual focus support by using the 8x or 10x magnified LiveView.

I guess this should solve my current problems to get exact focus with my better resolving lenses (e.g., a ZEISS Planar T* 1,4/50 ZK which is an A rather than FA lens anyway). Whereas this lens still will outperform a 14.6 MPixel sensor it is nevertheless extremely demanding on exact focus!

Therefore I highly welcome two K20D features:
- 10x magnified LiveView (giving me a 1:1 focus preview!), for my A lenses.
- automated focus series (much like exposure series, just focus now), for my FA/DA lenses.

For me actually, this is enough progress in the focus area to want a K20D.

And, as my topic title suggests, I ignore the lack of AF in LiveView here ;-)

Thanks for the info. As I do not use split-prism in my DSLR, this would be a very helpful feature for me too.

I had not really planed to use Live-View, but in some instances, also in portrait mode, with limited DOF, this could work out okay in manual focus.

I hate the beep for confirmed focus, as it can be a give-away for me to catch the subject off-guard. Therefore I always switch it off.
01-26-2008, 07:55 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by jms698 Quote
Pardon my ignorance, but isn't the moon, for all intents and purposes, at "infinity"?

It is but finding exact infinity in a lens is very difficult.

1. Wide open, fast lens = miniscule DOF.
2. Temperature variations change the position of infinity on the lens. A, say 25 degree Celcius variation in temperature makes a difference.
3. Many lenses focus past infinity. All super telephotos and the eg the FA Limiteds. This to compensate for thermal contraction/expansion.
4. Precision in the mirror finder system is never 100% and will vary from camera to camera.
5. True focus or ever so slightly off is hard to see on a focusing screen.
6. Precise focusing in low light, infinity or not, is virtually impossible.

The only way to ensure absolutely focus is on the film/sensor plane.
High magnification live view will be a very useful to astro and aurora photographers.
Some examples:

Here I stopped down the 77 Limited to F:3.5 in order to be certain infinity was in focus:
Red Aurora. Raftsundet, ...: Photo by Photographer Pål Jensen - photo.net

Here I stopped down either the A 24/2.8 or the 31/1.8, can't remember wich lens I used, to F:4 for the same reason.
Aurora Borealis in moonlight. ...: Photo by Photographer Pål Jensen - photo.net
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