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01-29-2008, 09:57 PM   #61
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Just a sad aside...

I'd just echo the general idea of the post with this little nugget. I'm in a University photography program at the very beginning level towards a potential BFA in photography. In my current digital photography class, ALL 30 students shoot Canon or Nikon. I've also met several other student in different courses, and have spoken to a couple teachers. None of them shoot Pentax, and so far, none of them know anybody else who does. It's true that Pentax doesn't have the same resources, and with last year's new camera lineup it has helped them a ton... that being said, I just hope Pentax can continue to expand it's market share. I'm doing my part and proudly sport my wicked nice Pentax vest wherever I go, but I do hope advertising continues to grow. The Pentaxian campaign isn't my favorite, but I'll gladly take it over nothing! Ultimately, I want to see the company grow, because that means more and better products for those of us who use this great system.

Who else can claim the value the K10D and now K20D carry?
Who else makes a line of medium format and digital with integrated compatibility?
Who else can claim the same lineup of great lenses for alot less $ than the other guys?

There is so much more to Pentax than the newest camera to come out... it's a versatile system with alot of room for a beginner, amateur, or professional to grow into.

01-29-2008, 10:16 PM   #62
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I am John Smith

QuoteOriginally posted by lol101 Quote
Mr Smith recently got interested in photography.
...
Mmmmhhhh... what will Mr Smith choose...
<br><br>
This is my first post.

I am Joe Smith (name changed to protect the innocent). About four months ago I became intrigued by the DSLR. This came after a years'-long loyalty to the film and my trusty K1000. I began looking into the matter. I looked into the magazines at the local giant-chain bookstores in this area. Naturally (being a brand loyalist) I nestled into the Pentax fold.

Money is an issue. I have a plastic gallon milk jug where I keep my change. About two months ago I stated my desire to buy a K10D and promised my wife she would see no credit card bill, nor any debits from any accounts. I guard my jugs of change lest they disappear into some home-repair.

So then I found this message board and lurked; only registering last week. My decision to buy a K10D confirmed, but I was intrigued (and still saving coins) by rumors of the next generation of cameras. It is fascinating to listen to the near-religious fervor demonstrated by the Pentax prophets. I admit I know less than half of the the technical jargon displayed on these pages. It's a little like reading the book of Revelations - much conjecture, only a few solid leads.

So then the day of revealing comes and goes. There are two cameras - the K20D and the K200D. The debates, satisfaction and disappointment, grow. And I am still with my daily pockets of change, ever saving towards a purchase.

What do to? A K10D or a K20D? The K200D is my John Edwards, alas. The cost, as I see it, is approximately eight months of change. I do not allow myself to consider lenses...

As I am not brave enough to be in the first wave of consumers and as I will keep the promise to my wife - time may be on my side. I'll keep you posted and in the meantime, will continue to read these posts and find reviews on my own.

And, fwiw - I think this is a great site.
01-29-2008, 10:42 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adecker Quote
The K200D is my John Edwards, alas. The cost, as I see it, is approximately eight months of change. I do not allow myself to consider lenses...
1. What does the first sentence mean?
2. You'd better allow for at least one lens!!
01-30-2008, 08:28 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
1. What does the first sentence mean?
2. You'd better allow for at least one lens!!
<br><br>
The first sentence means I'm not currently considering the 200 (unless I see that it is superior to the K10D). And then, again because of money, I'll stay with the kit lens long enough to learn how to use the camera I end up purchasing.

01-30-2008, 08:32 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adecker Quote
<br><br>
The first sentence means I'm not currently considering the 200 (unless I see that it is superior to the K10D). And then, again because of money, I'll stay with the kit lens long enough to learn how to use the camera I end up purchasing.
Plus, of course, you have lenses from your K1000.
01-30-2008, 10:15 AM   #66
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It would seem right now you can get a k10 for about the same price, if not a little lower (depending on discounts in the short term on the new models) than the k200d when you factor in the rebate on the k10 which ends on Jan 31, 08. I've heard the k10 will have a viewfinder that is brighter which could be handy for better shots w/ manual focus lenses and has an extra dial which allows for faster/ more intuitive changes to iso, shutter speed, and aperture. Plus, if you want to get the grip, you can get a $25 rebate on it also, again through the 31st. I've decided to go this route... of course I'd like to have the bigger 2.7" screen and live view on the k20 and a better signal to noise ratio w/ higher iso's, but $1300 vs $600 made my choice pretty easy. Add my 2 cents to your jugs...
01-30-2008, 10:13 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by proudtoshootpentax Quote
The Pentaxian campaign isn't my favorite, but I'll gladly take it over nothing!
Sad but true. :ugh:

Especially when the ads show high profile Pentaxians using lenses that ARE NOT IN PRODUCTION. (Mark Dimalanta, Kerrick James). What IS the point?!?!?!?!

Sometimes I wonder about Pentax...
01-31-2008, 05:16 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marcus Quote
Sad but true. :ugh:

Especially when the ads show high profile Pentaxians using lenses that ARE NOT IN PRODUCTION. (Mark Dimalanta, Kerrick James). What IS the point?!?!?!?!

Sometimes I wonder about Pentax...
It is very normal to have Professional photographers use newly developed equipment, to be able to give valuable feedback.
To in a campaign have them shooting lenses soon to hit the shelves, is just another way of hyping upcoming products. They were showcasing the 50-135 before it was in the stores, I don’t see the big problem here.
And that Kerrick James is still using the FA* lenses is no big secret. Should he hide them, just because a Pentax crew is coming out to follow him ? As he has been a Pentax shooter for a longer time, like Mark Dimalanta; it is little surprise that he is also using older professional grade lenses.

So a Canon Professional making a commercial for Canon, would not be allowed to use his EF 200 mm f/1.8 L USM or EF 50 f/1 L USM, as they are no longer in production ? Or reveal that he is actually using a Contax lens, as Canon do not have equivalent quality L glass for interior shooting ?

01-31-2008, 02:16 PM   #69
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no problem with old lenses...

QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
It is very normal to have Professional photographers use newly developed equipment, to be able to give valuable feedback.
To in a campaign have them shooting lenses soon to hit the shelves, is just another way of hyping upcoming products. They were showcasing the 50-135 before it was in the stores, I don’t see the big problem here.
And that Kerrick James is still using the FA* lenses is no big secret. Should he hide them, just because a Pentax crew is coming out to follow him ? As he has been a Pentax shooter for a longer time, like Mark Dimalanta; it is little surprise that he is also using older professional grade lenses.

So a Canon Professional making a commercial for Canon, would not be allowed to use his EF 200 mm f/1.8 L USM or EF 50 f/1 L USM, as they are no longer in production ? Or reveal that he is actually using a Contax lens, as Canon do not have equivalent quality L glass for interior shooting ?
I don't have a problem with these guys using old lenses... heck, I'd love to sneak those lenses out of their bags and into mine! I also like the idea of Pros demonstrating their love for Pentax, specifically because many people seem surprised by the fact that people who make a living from their photos use anything besides the big two. I just think the word 'Pentaxian' sounds a little cheesy. That said, it's an effort I don't mind lining up with if it helps the brand grow.
On the topic of lenses, I sure wish Pentax would pull out the blueprints on that old 80-200mm f2.8, replace the power zoom with a SDM, and seal it up nice and tight. R&D shouldn't cost much, and I just struggle to believe that it wouldn't sell (which is the ultimate decider in producing a product... if people want it badly enough, you'll make money). While they're at it, Wouldn't a new CAT lens be great? Make it prime and cheap, or add some cost and make it a zoom like the good old 400-600mm from long ago!
01-31-2008, 02:17 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
And that Kerrick James is still using the FA* lenses is no big secret. Should he hide them, just because a Pentax crew is coming out to follow him ? As he has been a Pentax shooter for a longer time, like Mark Dimalanta; it is little surprise that he is also using older professional grade lenses.
It's misleading. It's double talk. In an AD? It's suspect. Pentax is exposing it's rump on that one.

It's good for being a "Pentaxian", for that whole ideaology, but not for Pentax advertising. Advertising should never look into the discontinuted past. :ugh: I thought that was a no brainer. Pentax advertising is backwards. When you look at how many people Pentax could reach, it's narrow minded. Pentax should be bigger than being a "Pentaxian" with Pentax heritage behind them. The heritage is already there for those who want to look at it. They don't need to shove 20th century stuff up our 21st century noses. If we want to look into the past we can, but it shouldn't be mandatory. Pentax can't live in the past, especially with lenses that are discontinued.

A waste of advertising. "Good ol' days" photographers with discontinued equipment have no place in modern advertisements. Maybe one using discontinued equipment for legacy's sake, but not 2. This "emotional" connection with Pentax has got to stop. It makes it seems like Pentax is only advertising to themselves. What's the point?

QuoteQuote:
So a Canon Professional making a commercial for Canon, would not be allowed to use his EF 200 mm f/1.8 L USM or EF 50 f/1 L USM, as they are no longer in production ? Or reveal that he is actually using a Contax lens, as Canon do not have equivalent quality L glass for interior shooting ?
No he shouldn't and definitely not Contax. It's advertising. It's business not personal. You don't advertise backwards.

Again, if Joe Smith goes camera shopping, what good will it do him to see ads with discontinued lenses?

Last edited by Marcus; 01-31-2008 at 02:24 PM.
01-31-2008, 03:25 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marcus Quote
It's misleading. It's double talk. In an AD? It's suspect. Pentax is exposing it's rump on that one.

It's good for being a "Pentaxian", for that whole ideaology, but not for Pentax advertising. Advertising should never look into the discontinuted past. :ugh: I thought that was a no brainer. Pentax advertising is backwards. When you look at how many people Pentax could reach, it's narrow minded. Pentax should be bigger than being a "Pentaxian" with Pentax heritage behind them. The heritage is already there for those who want to look at it. They don't need to shove 20th century stuff up our 21st century noses. If we want to look into the past we can, but it shouldn't be mandatory. Pentax can't live in the past, especially with lenses that are discontinued.

A waste of advertising. "Good ol' days" photographers with discontinued equipment have no place in modern advertisements. Maybe one using discontinued equipment for legacy's sake, but not 2. This "emotional" connection with Pentax has got to stop. It makes it seems like Pentax is only advertising to themselves. What's the point?

Ok, I must say that I simply disagree.

”It's suspect”
It is suspect to show the truth ?!? I shoot my film camera, eventhough it is discontinued. There are many famous Pro’s still shooting film exclusively; so they should hold up a digital cam, and pretend ? That is the sort of advertisement spin that have made distrust in the public a common thing.


“Advertising should never look into the discontinuted past”
If you got a household name and a legacy, this is an asset.


"emotional" connection with Pentax”
They’re making a living using equipment ! It has nothing to do with emotional things, they use what gets the job done.


Many times, new lenses are made to cut corners and save money. Several lenses in the past from Pentax, left the factory at a loss; as they wanted to make better quality than Zeiss. Adds should portray it as real as possible. It is revolting that Pro’s would make adds where they stand with a rebel digital, eventhough they would never use that model in real life. Or how everyone at Superbowl has to wear a Canon commercial shirt, even the Nikon shooters.

Do you also dislike that they use the 50-135 before it can be in the hands of the public ?
01-31-2008, 04:06 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
Ok, I must say that I simply disagree.

”It's suspect”
It is suspect to show the truth ?!? I shoot my film camera, eventhough it is discontinued. There are many famous Pro’s still shooting film exclusively; so they should hold up a digital cam, and pretend ? That is the sort of advertisement spin that have made distrust in the public a common thing.
And I say the same thing to you. This is an advertisement spin when you advertise products that are discontinuted. They should keep that in the closet. Whatever is discontinued is a no-no to put in an ad, especially when Pentax is trying to re-establish itself.

QuoteQuote:
“Advertising should never look into the discontinuted past”
If you got a household name and a legacy, this is an asset.
How much of an asset is that when that legacy is discontinued? And asset to who? What is the point of advertising it? What is the point of including it in an ad? Is there even a modern replacement for it? It should be kept in the closet. People can shoot Pentax all their lives but what type of lean does this give to Pentax ads? Are they just a legacy company or a cutting edge feature camera company? How much legacy should matter with people who aren't going to switch from Pentax either way? Pentax shooters will still shoot Pentax. They don't need to be advertised to. It's the new users that need to come on board and seeing discontinued lenses in ads can't be encouraging.

QuoteQuote:
"emotional" connection with Pentax”
They’re making a living using equipment! It has nothing to do with emotional things, they use what gets the job done.
Here's the quote from Mark Dimalanta in the ad. No offense to Mark Dimalanta at all. I can't even lace his boots.

"As being recognized as a Pentaxian is a real honor for me because it's on the short list of things I believe in- the transcendence of the human spirit, my family's love, the Dallas Cowboys, and the philosophy of excellence and simplicity that Pentax has always stood for."

[quote] It is revolting that Pro’s would make adds where they stand with a rebel digital, or everyone at Superbowl has to wear a Canon shirt, even the Nikon shooters.

Revolting? C'mon! How serious do you take this? If you were a pro sports shooter, you'd probably have more things to worry about at the Super Bowl than which shirt you have on. They could put a Pringles shirt on a sports photog at the Super Bowl. A Slim Jim shirt. Burger King. Whatever the sponsor... It wouldn't matter point blank period. Period. You're shooting at the Super Bowl. Your shot could be famous.

QuoteQuote:
Do you also dislike that they use the 50-135 before it can be in the hands of the public ?
No. There is nothing wrong with that. It eventually came. You can actually buy that lens from Pentax. That serves the purpose for advertising.
02-08-2008, 03:48 AM   #73
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You have all got it wrong!

Obviously none of you were there when Mr Smith walked into Jacks Camera Store.

This is how it happened. Really, honest to goodness true account. :ugh:

Jack was busy. But Jack is also very astute and has employed well.

Mr Smith enters the store and approaches the counter, behind which is a dazzling array DSLR's....he is suitably awestruck...all his prior homework rolling around in his head into one incomprensible jumble, the only thing ringing loudly in his ears was the words of his wife..."we can't afford any damn camera".

Now Mr Smith is a pretty average sort of guy, the type you could walk over in the street and not remember a thing about him 10 seconds later...nice guy...but entirely forgettable.

So as Mr Smith stands staring at this impressive display of cameras, a shadow passes in front of him...

....and a husky, female voice purrs at him..."hi there, can I help you?"

Now, Sarah, straight off the pages of Ben's latest photo shoot and Jacks secret weapon in record camera sales, leans forward onto the counter, stretching her "Pentax K20D" Tank Top to the limit and fixes Mr Smith with a dazzling smile and a look so penetrating he does his best to imitate a goldfish for 1 whole minute before croaking out a strangled "yes, please....I would like two of them" his eyes never leaving her bulging top, as he hands across his credit card.

All over in 90 seconds, done & dusted.

So you see people, it had nothing to do with pixels, fps, AF, SR, NR, ABC or DEF ...it all came down to marketing...and cup size!

My sincerest apologies to the females who are such valued contributors to this forum...but I couldn't resist the temptation this thread has been dangling (no pun intended ladies, behave youselves!) for some time now. Thought I did quite well to hold off this long.

Cheers
02-08-2008, 04:22 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marcus Quote
And I say the same thing to you. This is an advertisement spin when you advertise products that are discontinuted. They should keep that in the closet. Whatever is discontinued is a no-no to put in an ad, especially when Pentax is trying to re-establish itself.



How much of an asset is that when that legacy is discontinued? And asset to who? What is the point of advertising it? What is the point of including it in an ad? Is there even a modern replacement for it? It should be kept in the closet. People can shoot Pentax all their lives but what type of lean does this give to Pentax ads? Are they just a legacy company or a cutting edge feature camera company? How much legacy should matter with people who aren't going to switch from Pentax either way? Pentax shooters will still shoot Pentax. They don't need to be advertised to. It's the new users that need to come on board and seeing discontinued lenses in ads can't be encouraging.
Being new to everything photography related, I can say you are 100% wrong. This was exactly one of the things that influenced my decision to go with Pentax (though it wasn't their advertising that alerted me to it). It didn't matter that they were discontinued since they can still be had on the used market. Product legacy has been very successful in advertising all sorts of things, high tech or not. Ever heard the phrase "Everything old is new again"? And as far as doing away with the "emotional attachment", that's how advertising works! It's all about emotion. The product itself always takes a backseat.
02-08-2008, 06:48 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
I have three options...
1. I will be visiting Paris in a few months so I can buy one there...
2. I can wait for Pentax to realise they screwed up and bring the price down a bit.
3. I can buy a Samsung
Why did you leave out the other suggestion to buy online?

If you need a very reputable German online dealer with good prices and who cares about customers individually, drop me a personal mail.
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