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01-26-2008, 11:28 AM   #16
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Hmmmm...

Wouldn't you think that the price structure has been set by Hoya to reflect the prices the cameras need to be sold for in able to attain the return on investment that they require in order to maintain the profitability they demand for their divisions?

If the prices are actually being adjusted downward (due to the competition they face from Samsung) before the new camera is even available to the public...

Samsung would be in no rush to have their cameras return x% on their investment. If they continue to underprice Pentax, they could theoretically force Hoya to dump Pentax and Samsung could take over Pentax.

I know if I were making the plans at Samsung, I would be at least be looking at this scenerio.

If there's a flaw in my logic, let's hear it.

01-26-2008, 12:47 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
Wouldn't you think that the price structure has been set by Hoya to reflect the prices the cameras need to be sold for in able to attain the return on investment that they require in order to maintain the profitability they demand for their divisions?

If the prices are actually being adjusted downward (due to the competition they face from Samsung) before the new camera is even available to the public...

Samsung would be in no rush to have their cameras return x% on their investment. If they continue to underprice Pentax, they could theoretically force Hoya to dump Pentax and Samsung could take over Pentax.

I know if I were making the plans at Samsung, I would be at least be looking at this scenerio.

If there's a flaw in my logic, let's hear it.
No flaw Tom. I've been involved in more than a few OEM deals in my day and this whole thing is just mind boggling. The primary manufacturer (Pentax) should be able to get a 7 to 10% premium, no more. Not knowing what the OEM customer (Samsung) is going to sell their product for long before you go to market just shouldn't happen, never!!!! An OEM product should create as much percentage profit than your own branded product. If Pentax is not making a nice gross on what they are selling Samsung heads should roll.

My guess is the marketing people at Pentax fell in love with their new baby and thought they could make extra on it rather then pricing it to market, sad. As far as Samsungs attitude toward future possibilities are concerned, I suspect they priced the GX20 properly and are going to let Pentax continue to shoot themselves in the foot until Hoya gets fed up and sells them the division.

Some companies are driven by marketing and others by engineering. After watching Pentax for the last year and a half my guess is they are an engineering oriented company and marketing is an afterthought. Pentax is dropping the K10D while it appears Samsung will continue to offer the GX10 which is a good example of the different attitudes. The GX10 hits a great feature/price point and will remain a strong seller even against the new models from Canon/Nikon.

I'm underwhelmed by Pentax marketing, no imagination at all.
01-27-2008, 06:24 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
If there's a flaw in my logic, let's hear it.
No flaws as I see it. It's one of the few things I'm floating in my mind right now regarding Samsung and Pentax. Hoya will probably be irritated some over this, though they can't fault Samsung, who's been helpful in Pentax moving away from reliance on Sony.

QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
My guess is the marketing people at Pentax fell in love with their new baby and thought they could make extra on it rather then pricing it to market, sad. As far as Samsungs attitude toward future possibilities are concerned, I suspect they priced the GX20 properly and are going to let Pentax continue to shoot themselves in the foot until Hoya gets fed up and sells them the division.

Some companies are driven by marketing and others by engineering. After watching Pentax for the last year and a half my guess is they are an engineering oriented company and marketing is an afterthought. Pentax is dropping the K10D while it appears Samsung will continue to offer the GX10 which is a good example of the different attitudes. The GX10 hits a great feature/price point and will remain a strong seller even against the new models from Canon/Nikon.

I'm underwhelmed by Pentax marketing, no imagination at all.
I agree with you, except that maybe the marketing mavens at Pentax weren't so much enamored with the superiority on the MP front, only that Hoya's pressuring Pentax to produce max profits.

Samsung probably is more generous to their camera division compared to Hoya (Mr. Onada's interview over at BJP is very telling), and are probably happy with capturing more market share than extracting every last penny with every camera sale.

It's definitely good for consumers that Samsung isn't inclined to discontinue the GX-10 thus far. Of course, that'll also eat into some K200D sales...
01-27-2008, 08:09 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
It's definitely good for consumers that Samsung isn't inclined to discontinue the GX-10 thus far. Of course, that'll also eat into some K200D sales...
There are two separate issues here, gross profit and percentage of profit. Hoya seems to be more concerned about percentage of profit at this time. Pentax would have to be dumber than a rock if they aren't making the expected 10% on their sales to Samsung. As long as they are Hoya could care less if Pentax sells to Samsung or their own brand, just as long as the factory is running at 80% or better capacity.

01-27-2008, 04:39 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
There are two separate issues here, gross profit and percentage of profit. Hoya seems to be more concerned about percentage of profit at this time. Pentax would have to be dumber than a rock if they aren't making the expected 10% on their sales to Samsung. As long as they are Hoya could care less if Pentax sells to Samsung or their own brand, just as long as the factory is running at 80% or better capacity.
Well, I certainly hadn't thought of that. Good catch.
01-27-2008, 05:32 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote

Samsung would be in no rush to have their cameras return x% on their investment. If they continue to underprice Pentax, they could theoretically force Hoya to dump Pentax and Samsung could take over Pentax.
The plot thickens...

Or Samsung could could take the stance of "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" (if they haven't already to some degree). Since Pentax jointly own patents on the new sensor i doubt that Hoya will give up that potential cash cow, especially if everyone wants to start using it ala Sony sensors. Samsung wouldnt need to buy the brand, just hire the out of work engineers should it occur.

Last edited by Kaimarx; 01-27-2008 at 05:55 PM.
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