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01-26-2008, 08:53 AM   #1
RaduA
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My K1D dream machine for the end of 2008

First of all I don’t know if this part of the forum is right or wrong since this is not a rumor nor news. It’s something I think will make the ultimate entry level Pro DSLR and in my opinion a D300 killer.

Building on the new K20D’ sensor with some tweaks if available in the future;

Totally updated autofocus system in a state of the art form;

Hires LCD, not necessarily 3” maybe a screen mobile this time. Maintain the color calibration functions (real nice touch, Pentax!);

More power for the battery (always a good thing IMHO);

Edit: at least 1/8000 shutter speed, at least 1/250 flash sync speed.

A real connection with a PC (that maybe available in K20D as we speak thru remote assistant) for studio and product shooting;

And now for the grand finale we need a solution for the 3 fps “plague” –btw for me is enough in K20D but will not be enough in a semi Pro DSLR. We need to take into consideration the size of a RAW file and even light compressed JPEG. We all know that Samsung is the leader (or at least a very important player) in flash memory technology. So, why not integrate in the electronics a very hi speed 1-2-4 GB of flash to act as a buffer between the RAM and the SD card? With the prices of flash falling and the speed rising every day I think this solution can ultimately provide maximum speed of the shutter system until the SD card is full (and this in RAW nevertheless). I count on the fact that a form of internal HDD SSD type will always be faster than a SD card.

So, in summary all we need is for Pentax and Samsung to focus on the electronics and I believe that a 14,6 Mp / 8-10 frames/second – no buffer limit is possible.

And in the mean time please Hoya focus on more and better lenses (I mean “higher class glass” – maybe longer primes?) and we will have a Pentax system which can hold its own to the C and N in almost every sense of the word.
My 2 cents worth of flash memory

Radu


Last edited by RaduA; 01-26-2008 at 10:30 AM.
01-26-2008, 09:47 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote

A real connection with a PC (that maybe available in K20D as we speak thru remote assistant) for studio and product shooting;

Radu
What do you mean? Remote Assistant can already control nearly all the shooting settings, and I'm sure LiveView will be added when the camera is out.
01-26-2008, 10:02 AM   #3
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by ricardobeat Quote
What do you mean? Remote Assistant can already control nearly all the shooting settings, and I'm sure LiveView will be added when the camera is out.
Hi, Ricardo!

I had K100D so I couldn't use Remote Asistant and maybe I wasn't that clear on that ... sorry.
Anyway this part is the least important compared with the rest of the features IMO.

Radu
01-26-2008, 12:39 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
Hi, Ricardo!

I had K100D so I couldn't use Remote Asistant and maybe I wasn't that clear on that ... sorry.
Anyway this part is the least important compared with the rest of the features IMO.

Radu
Oh, you can use the K100D on Remote Assistant with firmware 1.00. I don't know if you can downgrade like the K10, I just never updated mine

01-26-2008, 01:41 PM   #5
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by ricardobeat Quote
Oh, you can use the K100D on Remote Assistant with firmware 1.00. I don't know if you can downgrade like the K10, I just never updated mine
I had v1.02 on mine, but I sold it about 10 days ago in preparation for a K20D. Even with v1.00 I had limited functions if I recall correctlly.

Thanks anyway!
Radu
01-26-2008, 03:37 PM   #6
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Ok inorder to have such things as faster fps and x-sync the entire shutter box needs to be redwsigned and made.
Some other things are just computer based but I doube that we will see a body the size of the original D with a 10fps drive (unless ite electronic shutter in live view)
I also think that they will have to come out with a new battery to drive the shutter/mirror for as long as the existing battery does in the K10D.
So the list of NEW parts:
Mirror box
Shutter
Appature cuppling
shutter-box area (for all the servos etc)
Battery (higher cap)
Voice recorder
Wi-Fi
body design?? like the D3 etc

Computer wise:
(If they can, keep the same chip if it works perfectly)
processing power
buffer
other tweeks for remote asistance etc.


I doubt we would see all of thiss untill 09 on shelves but a pricetag about $3-4K
01-26-2008, 03:50 PM   #7
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I don't think Pentax need to go to 10 fps, that is not their market. But I agree they might have to do more than 3, mostly because it starts to sound old fashioned ;-) Maybe Pentax can continue on the electronic solution they have going now. I don't think Pentax ever will be a camera for pres or sports photographers, it will cost too much to get into thet market that is fully owned by Canikon, but they might be able to put in the 20 fps, or 10 fps in maybe 6 Mp, for those special situatios where you need to go above 5 (or 3 as today) ?
01-26-2008, 06:37 PM   #8
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by quarc Quote
I don't think Pentax need to go to 10 fps, that is not their market. But I agree they might have to do more than 3, mostly because it starts to sound old fashioned ;-) Maybe Pentax can continue on the electronic solution they have going now. I don't think Pentax ever will be a camera for pres or sports photographers, it will cost too much to get into thet market that is fully owned by Canikon, but they might be able to put in the 20 fps, or 10 fps in maybe 6 Mp, for those special situatios where you need to go above 5 (or 3 as today) ?
I keep hearing that Pentax cannot copy Canikon they have to innovate/better C and N. I agree and I think also that surrendering entire markets is bad for the future. And my opinion is that Pentax should grow up in the market, not in the lowest price/ lowest margins zone.
- I don't think many (if any will switch and throw away Canikon equipment) but it is an option for the new starters to choose a similar technical and hopefully less expensive system; Proportions kept in 2006 I could buy either Canon 350-400 or Nikon 40/40X and I choose Pentax for what I perceived to be some more features for my money.
- the benefit of having sky high limit is that you can choose any setting down. You may have the possibility to shoot 10-20 fps and choose only 5 or 6fps, but from a marketing stand point the 20 fps (at any setting that is) is a killer feature. As ANY camera feature this can come in handy SOMETIME ... whether sealing is useless indoors, AF tracking is quasi useless in good light and with some lenses, and so on. Even the pixel resolution of the sensor is subject to someone's needs. You can print 6x4 or view photos on the monitor with a 3 Mp sensor.
All I am saying is that if mechanically a 10-20 fps shutter is feasible the buffer needs to be huge and some flash based ssd could be a solution. Also this flash could be an "internal memory" which will add (also from a marketing standpoint) to the appeal of a higher end camera.
It would be nice to see in a sea of white "cannons" some black with gold stripe ones. Not now but in the future...

And yes, I am an IT guy so I tend to be inspired from that field.

Radu


Last edited by RaduA; 01-26-2008 at 06:44 PM. Reason: typos
01-26-2008, 07:15 PM   #9
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Agree that Pentax needs to do MORE, and NOT concede big lucrative chunks of the market; that's been their downfall to date. The K1D needs, for example, to be FULL FRAME, and lots of fresh, SHARP, FAST, CONSTANT APERTURE (for zooms) glass needs to be added to the lineup. Stop bottom feeding and start competing, in other words! Pentax/Tokina/Samsung can be an absolute BEAST in the dSLR market, but they have to think BIG.
01-26-2008, 08:05 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
Agree that Pentax needs to do MORE, and NOT concede big lucrative chunks of the market; that's been their downfall to date. The K1D needs, for example, to be FULL FRAME, and lots of fresh, SHARP, FAST, CONSTANT APERTURE (for zooms) glass needs to be added to the lineup. Stop bottom feeding and start competing, in other words! Pentax/Tokina/Samsung can be an absolute BEAST in the dSLR market, but they have to think BIG.
Are you sure those areas of the market are actually lucrative? The number of people willing to drop $2000 on a camera is significantly less than a quarter of those who can spend $500. This brings economies of scale down, which means you can't automatically build in a huge margin to compensate. There's a reason Canon and Nikon put so much work into their entry-level models.
01-26-2008, 08:14 PM   #11
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There's also a reason Canon and Nikon put so much effort into their flagship models, eh?
01-26-2008, 08:50 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
There's also a reason Canon and Nikon put so much effort into their flagship models, eh?
Sure -- they've got the money to support it and having the whole ecosystem available draws in professionals, which builds marketshare. It's clearly a successful long-term approach if you've got the money to do it -- but it's not necessarily lucrative in and of itself.

I heard once that Canon makes no money at all on its three different currently-made (!) tilt-shift lenses. They just make them so that people will know that they're available when they decide to buy Canon. The thing is, once you've got one or two (ahem) companies trying that approach, it's not necessarily a good approach for all the competition to try the exact same approach -- it's a hard game at which to beat the established players.
01-26-2008, 09:03 PM   #13
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So then the strategy should be to produce second rate products and not even try to compete? Why not just cut your losses and liquidate now? I don't get the defeatism that often seems to be expressed here - the entire reason Canon/Nikon have the resources is that they invested heavily in top-notch product to build up their brands. If Pentax doesn't do the same, they'll be relegated to also-rans. No market share increases or economies of scale are going to be won with second-rate products. That thinking got Pentax from a point where they outsold the "big two" to a point where they have little market penetration left. Now that they've got some powerful new partners, why would you have them repeat the mistake by being in essence afraid to compete?
01-27-2008, 05:49 AM   #14
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
So then the strategy should be to produce second rate products and not even try to compete? Why not just cut your losses and liquidate now? I don't get the defeatism that often seems to be expressed here - the entire reason Canon/Nikon have the resources is that they invested heavily in top-notch product to build up their brands. If Pentax doesn't do the same, they'll be relegated to also-rans. No market share increases or economies of scale are going to be won with second-rate products. That thinking got Pentax from a point where they outsold the "big two" to a point where they have little market penetration left. Now that they've got some powerful new partners, why would you have them repeat the mistake by being in essence afraid to compete?
Hi, 24x36NOW

I concur with your logic here for the most part. But your thoughts maybe more appropriate not for a quick to emerge on the market K1D but for an even upper class model latter in time. To go full frame with K1D means 2 very bad things:
1) start from scratch with a new sensor;
2) don't capitalize on a larger volume sales for the sensor.
IMO it will stretch even further the resources Pentax has available now. Of course all depends on the final, proven quality of this new sensor.

For me, bringing this year a fully fledged K1D could mean basically this:

- K1D - rival D300;
- K20D + 16-50 kit lenses - full weatherproof system for about 1400-1500 USD/Euros - bring the fire on 40D, A700, E3;
- K20D + kit lenses - at about 900-100 USD/Euros - bring the fire on Rebel 450;
- K300D + kit lenses - 799 USD/Euros with the SAME sensor only crippled in software to 10-12 Mp and larger buffer than K200D - premium entry level so to speak. Imagine a 12 Mp D300 with ISO 3200/6400 usable vs. Rebel 450 with ISO 1600

That will mean Pentax can make important economies by effectively producing only one sensor in large volumes.

After that who knows? FF, 645D anything is possible but in my opinion those models will be more for the bragging rights than for making money. And in time some of their technology could get into the next gen line up of DSLR's.

Radu
01-27-2008, 06:14 AM   #15
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24X36NOW you're quite right. But it's not so easy to do this: it does requires years. IT required years also for Canon and for Nikon too.

K2** looks like the first step. They really did incredible things...they are free from Sony CCD chains [remember that Nikon had a real advantage from this], they developed a new sensor form scratch breaking the old rule "more megapixels = worst IQ" equation, they bring us the teles we hoped for.

Now there is [maybe] the better IQ, rock solid build, nice prices, good lenses lineup, decent autofocus. Let R&D guys have a little rest. Then they'll surely concentrate on redesigning the shutter, maybe making something innovative there too
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