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08-16-2012, 07:46 AM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomTextura Quote
I don't understand this logic. Why would, after a bunch of us finally get what we've been longing for (a Pentax FF camera), we move to the competitor to buy something we don't really want and still end up spending the same amount of money? Are you implying something about limited lens selection in the current Pentax catalog? Or do you mean that the Pentax user would elect to buy the cheaper and older D700 or the speculated affordable D600? The D700, while a great camera from what I can tell, is old and won't be competing directly with a new Pentax FF. On top of that, the D700 is out of production from what I understand. The D600, if cheaper than a Pentax FF, won't have the same features that the Pentax will. So, again, their won't be direct competition from Nikon other than the D800 in your pricing scenario. If a loyal Pentax user has the option to go Pentax or Nikon for the same price, why on Earth would they choose the later?
If the Pentax costs the same as the Nikon then it likely will have the same 36MP sensor. I doubt that will happen. It more likely will come in at 2-2200 and be 24MP
and why would anyone bail for Nikon if they can finally get a system that lets them use there existing lenses? Even if the body is thae same price as a D800, there is the lens cost to take into account. For instance I have at the moment 17 lenses that will work on a FF Pentax, it would cost me a bomb to replace even a portion of them on nikon, and likely more than i would recoup selling the pentax for instance
Not to bash Nikon though because i've tried my cousins D800 briefly and it is pretty damn stellar. I don't think however Pentax will target that level initially
and instead try and offer a value proposition like the k5 is. not the cheapest but definitely the best value in it's category

08-16-2012, 07:51 AM   #317
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Are the D700 and 5D II discontinued? If so (and perhaps even if not) it's pretty clear the D800 *is* the best value right now. Of course the D600 will change that.

I doubt a Pentax FF will be as cheap as the D600 but as long as it's close and it has the button placement of the K-5, I'll buy two.
08-16-2012, 08:00 AM   #318
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Are the D700 and 5D II discontinued? If so (and perhaps even if not) it's pretty clear the D800 *is* the best value right now. Of course the D600 will change that.

I doubt a Pentax FF will be as cheap as the D600 but as long as it's close and it has the button placement of the K-5, I'll buy two.
D700 is gone locally so i imagine it is officially discontinued (makes sense with the pending 600) 5D2 is probably close to gone, now 1999 in toronto, and demos are being sold off as well. so the rumour of a lower price Canon is likely pretty accurate as well.

I think a Pentax needs to try really hard to be @ $1999 to sell volumes.
08-16-2012, 08:11 AM   #319
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A $2k Pentax will grow the brand.
A $3k Pentax will slow the bleeding.

08-16-2012, 08:29 AM   #320
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Not to bash Nikon though because i've tried my cousins D800 briefly and it is pretty damn stellar.
I sort of hate to admit it, but the D800 has really piqued my interest in Nikon. I still have lots of reservations about the system, mostly price and size/ergonomics. I'm curious to find out what Nikon comes out with for their replacements to the D7000 and D300s as I feel that the ideal set up is to have both a full frame and APS-C camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
A $2k Pentax will grow the brand. A $3k Pentax will slow the bleeding.
That sounds about right. My vote is for there to be both, preferably with them both being made available in 2013. Not sure how having two full frame bodies would fit in to the four DSLR lineup number that's been tossed around. I see absolutely no reason for Pentax to have four APS-C DSLRs.
08-16-2012, 08:50 AM   #321
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomTextura Quote

That sounds about right. My vote is for there to be both, preferably with them both being made available in 2013. Not sure how having two full frame bodies would fit in to the four DSLR lineup number that's been tossed around. I see absolutely no reason for Pentax to have four APS-C DSLRs.
Agreed no reason for 4 apsc if you are only making 4 dslr. i think it will be 3 apsc (entry mid and enthusiast) and a Ff that is more at the enthusiast level than the full blown pro. a 2nd FF would be more likely for 2014 giving another year for fine tuning and developing more pro level features and improving the service network and pro services. Spring next year is just to fast for these elements to all fall in place, whereas a high level enthusiast Ff is quite doable now, and still sends the signals that they are serious about the higher end market (the over $2000 market will always be a small constrained one, so better to hit the sub $2000 and build the user base and volume first. same reason a basic entry apsc is badly needed. K30 and K5 {replacement} cover their markets well). an extra year for the pro model gives time for lens development and flash and af improvements which are all needed to compete there....it also gives time for 3rd parties to start rolling out more models in K mount which will likely happen as the line expands)
08-16-2012, 09:09 AM   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
i think it will be 3 apsc (entry mid and enthusiast) and a Ff that is more at the enthusiast level than the full blown pro. a 2nd FF would be more likely for 2014 giving another year for fine tuning and developing more pro level features and improving the service network and pro services.
That wouldn't be so bad.

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
an extra year for the pro model gives time for lens development and flash and af improvements which are all needed to compete there....it also gives time for 3rd parties to start rolling out more models in K mount which will likely happen as the line expands)
I haven't looked much at what it is that so special about Canikon's flash systems and it hasn't mattered much to me as I've had little to complain about and usually use my flash in manual and off camera. I understand that have a lot of support/integration with third parties like Pocket Wizard and ProFoto and such for the metering. That's nice but not too big of a deal, at least to me. More third party lens support is something I would definitely appreciate, and I'm sure a good number of other people would as well. My eyes are on the fast constant aperture ultra wide and super telephoto lenses, namely the Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 and the Sigma 120-300 f/2.8, not that I'll be able to afford the latter any time soon. Who knows, if Pentax really rounds out their lens catalog well, lack of much third party support could be less of an issue.
08-16-2012, 09:11 AM   #323
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
If the Pentax costs the same as the Nikon then it likely will have the same 36MP sensor. I doubt that will happen. It more likely will come in at 2-2200 and be 24MP
and why would anyone bail for Nikon if they can finally get a system that lets them use there existing lenses? Even if the body is thae same price as a D800, there is the lens cost to take into account. For instance I have at the moment 17 lenses that will work on a FF Pentax, it would cost me a bomb to replace even a portion of them on nikon, and likely more than i would recoup selling the pentax for instance
Not to bash Nikon though because i've tried my cousins D800 briefly and it is pretty damn stellar. I don't think however Pentax will target that level initially
and instead try and offer a value proposition like the k5 is. not the cheapest but definitely the best value in it's category
I really doubt that Pentax can get the 36 mp sensor that Nikon is using in the D800, although I think it would be worth the extra price.

I currently have 4 lenses (all primes) that I could use on full frame, but I would still need full frame zooms which would add to the overall cost of the package (but still probably worth it in my book).

08-16-2012, 09:20 AM   #324
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I really doubt that Pentax can get the 36 mp sensor that Nikon is using in the D800, although I think it would be worth the extra price.
I don't see why not. But I agree that it would be worth it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I currently have 4 lenses (all primes) that I could use on full frame, but I would still need full frame zooms which would add to the overall cost of the package (but still probably worth it in my book).
I'm close to being in the same boat with only having FF compatible primes and no zooms. It'll be very interesting to see what Pentax does to their lens lineup after releasing an FF camera. I think the consensus, and most obvious zooms, is that the standard two f/2.8 24-70 and 70-200 lenses are needed. Pentax tends to like odd focal lengths though so I wouldn't be surprised to see them buck this trend. Like I said, it's going to be very interesting to watch Pentax at work in the coming years. It's just all the waiting that is a drag. All this speculation and anticipation of a Pentax FF reminds me of kids on a road trip repeatedly asking, "are we there yet?" I can't help but be like a kid sometimes with this though too.
08-16-2012, 09:20 AM   #325
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I really doubt that Pentax can get the 36 mp sensor that Nikon is using in the D800, although I think it would be worth the extra price.

I currently have 4 lenses (all primes) that I could use on full frame, but I would still need full frame zooms which would add to the overall cost of the package (but still probably worth it in my book).
i agree i imagine there is a lock down term on the 36mp sensor, i think it may well be available by 2014 though for a pro level body meanwhile the 1st FF would sell quite well with a 24mp and a lower price, and by 2014 it's likely a 36mp body could sell for 22-2400 with the 24 dropping to 15-1600
08-16-2012, 11:03 AM   #326
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomTextura Quote
I'm close to being in the same boat with only having FF compatible primes and no zooms. It'll be very interesting to see what Pentax does to their lens lineup after releasing an FF camera. I think the consensus, and most obvious zooms, is that the standard two f/2.8 24-70 and 70-200 lenses are needed.

Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 EX DG OS APO HSM AF Lens (For Pentax)

This one is not yet out, and also a somewhat extreme version of what other manufacturers could do - to produce more full frame lens' that would work with a Pentax PK.

Since companies such as Sigma already make full frame zooms for cameras such as Canon & Nikon, and there are naturally other full frame zooms for cameras such as Sony... It wouldn't take much for companies such as Sigma to possbly get about ten zoom full frame lens' to work with PK. Also Pentax does have the resources to produce at least four or five zooms in the format that I quoted from you. The question would be the price of such lens' and also the available aperature ranges versus the size and weight of the lens.

Being that full frame lens' and aso full frame camera bodies are in fact catered more towards professionals; would such new PK lens also be catered to better fixed aperatures; while sacrificing size, weight, and even cost? But also noting; that some of the Pentax fixed focals that are now full frame (such as the 50 macro) are actually presently costing less than some of the non full frame examples.
08-16-2012, 01:06 PM   #327
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@MediumFormatPro Sigma announced that lens, along with a couple others, clear back in Feb. 2011 and that listing on B&H has been parked there ever since. Sigma has removed their old announcement from the news section of their website but it's the same as what's still shown here. I'm honestly surprised that, with the apparent popularity of the K-5, Sigma never released their 120-300 for K-mount, especially since it's been something of a focal length gap in the Pentax lineup. It'd be nice to see the 150mm f/2.8 macro from them, and their even newer and longer 180mm f/2.8 macro, offered in K-mount. Another comment about Sigma: at the time of that Feb. 2011 announcement mentioned above Sigma was really hyping that their new crop of lenses were "splash proof", but they have since stopped using that terminology and no longer seem to say anything about it. I'm very curious why they no longer want to market this feature. From a pessimistic angle, maybe it simply wasn't very effective and they were concerned about getting in an influx of warranty claims. Anyway, if Pentax/Ricoh can make the inroads into the DSLR market that they've set out to, I look forward to the responses from the various third parties. I'm trying to be optimistic about what's in store for Pentax, and me as a Pentax user, over the next couple of years but I am a little impatient and getting rather anxious and eager to see new products made available. On the upside, having less tempting gear to buy will slow the bleeding of my bank account.
08-16-2012, 02:06 PM   #328
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A battery grip for the Pentax Q.
BG-Q
08-16-2012, 02:33 PM   #329
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Just to answer the title of the thread: Pentax will not show a K3 FF camera at Photokina or any other FF camera. They will show an upper level APS body (whatever it is going to be called) probably along with three new high-end APS lenses: a DA ~16-85(?), A Limited zoom and the DA 550/5.6. There's also an entry level DSLR in the works.
I suspect Pentax have decided that their answer to FF will be cropped 645 format; ie bigger than FF.
08-16-2012, 02:36 PM   #330
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One thing I'm sure of, if there is nothing about a FF a photokina it is extremely unlikely to see a Pentax FF in the foreseeable future.
Unless the market phases out top end APSC cameras for cheaper and cheaper FF sensors.
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