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08-28-2012, 05:39 AM   #526
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
A K-5 replacement alone won't generate enough attention in the presence of Canikon's full-frame onslaught. The Pentax system needs to be emphasized, including lens, flash and accessories. They need to make a compelling argument for what they deliver today and what they will deliver in the future will be competitive and meet the needs of the consumer, imaginary or real.

I camera\robot would be a neat trick worthy of a line or two in the press with pictures.

I'll believe it when I see the price tag of said 'cheap' FF.
I don't expect it to be aps-c price, more likely current 5Dii or D700. At most $100-200 cheaper

Anyway, from a friend I consider in the 'know' and not a pure speculator.
APS-C camera at Photokina, FF early next year.
Start saving to avoid complaining about the price of the camera when it comes.


Last edited by pinholecam; 08-28-2012 at 06:37 AM.
08-28-2012, 05:46 AM   #527
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That's why I don't understand why Pentax going Pro-APSC-DSLR would be so very hot. (As stated in various threads.)

1. Why buy such a camera if you can get a entry level FF for slightly more (or maybe even less?) money?!

2. And no matter how sophisticated such a Pro-APSC body would be, lots of people would consider the entry level FF body "more pro". That includes lots of angencies that require their photographers to use FF.
08-28-2012, 06:00 AM   #528
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That's why I don't understand why Pentax going Pro-APSC-DSLR would be so very hot. (As stated in various threads.)

1. Why buy such a camera if you can get a entry level FF for slightly more (or maybe even less?) money?!

2. And no matter how sophisticated such a Pro-APSC body would be, lots of people would consider the entry level FF body "more pro". That includes lots of angencies that require their photographers to use FF.
A crop factor is no advantage? Especially with high resolution sensors?

Also, we still have to see these "slightly more expensive FF bodies", only rumours so far.
08-28-2012, 06:35 AM   #529
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
(SR5) UPDATED: Full A99 specs! To be announced on September 12th. | sonyalpharumors


I hope it's true that the K-3 will use the same sensor and come out six months later.
Nice find. Since late 2011 we've had multiple rumors pointing to a Pentax FF using a new Sony 24MP sensor. Also we've heard oddities about a six month delay before Pentax could release a camera with said sensor. So if Sony releases this camera around Photokina, Pentax could announce their plans to make FF, and six months later (~Mar 2013) release it. Seems plausible to me.

08-28-2012, 08:13 AM   #530
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That includes lots of angencies that require their photographers to use FF.
Geez why not requesting x brand of trousers when they're at it?
What the s**t can it do if the pic is good enough ?
08-28-2012, 10:15 AM   #531
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Luckily they have 9 already. That was easy.

I'm not expecting a FF at Photokina but it's not due to a lack of lenses. A 12-24ish, a 24-75ish in FF and they're in business.

Oh look, there's one of each on the roadmap. Granted we don't know whether they're FF or not.

No 24-75 on the roadmap....
08-28-2012, 10:17 AM   #532
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentsive Quote
I have not read all the comments here (what an unwieldy thread haha) but re. the sensor size - I think we are at the upper limit sweet spot at 24MP for FF. Anything extra seems to be an attempt to pack a MF sensor on a FF - more noise, less-manageable files, etc... We see gorgeous sale-able prints from a D700 at 12MP. Why use P&S buying criteria at this point? There are already good camera choices the size of a lead birdhouse. Let's see a grab-go, weather-ready, ergonomically feasible FF (with no AA!) and that would be leading, rather than following, the market.
Huh? I think the D800 is the sweetspot. A 24mp FF camera will hardly make images better than the K-5 in prints. If you don't need mp why FF?
08-28-2012, 10:29 AM   #533
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Although I hate to admit it, this is very close to what I've heard too.

Anyway, if the 24mp Pentax is APS and come without the anti-aliasing filter it says a lot about the future (or lack thereof) of Pentax FF. The forthcoming 28-45/4.5(?) 645 lens is almost certainly a cropped lens (DA); such a lens can be made a price simlar to a 24-70/2.8 for 35mm (FF) but probably sold at a higher price cause the market will accept it. As 645 lenses have a lifespan of 10-20 years one can assume that Pentax have decided on the cropped 645 sensor (they have already adopted the DA naming for 645 lenses); I doubt Pentax will have both cropped and FF lenses and cameras for the 645 system. This indicate that Pentax answer to FF is 24mp APS without anti aliasing filter from below and a beyond FF cropped 645 sensor from above. This will of course change if Pentax 24mp camera is FF but there are no signs that says so. I can't see Pentax having an upper level APS, an entry level FF (whatever that is) and a cropped 645 camera in the line-up without competing with themselves. Time will tell...


Last edited by Pål Jensen; 08-28-2012 at 10:38 AM.
08-28-2012, 10:42 AM   #534
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That's why I don't understand why Pentax going Pro-APSC-DSLR would be so very hot. (As stated in various threads.)

1. Why buy such a camera if you can get a entry level FF for slightly more (or maybe even less?) money?!

2. And no matter how sophisticated such a Pro-APSC body would be, lots of people would consider the entry level FF body "more pro". That includes lots of angencies that require their photographers to use FF.
I don't understant this FF fascination for the sake of it. If APS is good enough for you; and for the vast majority of the population it is, why bother with FF? I have no problems with the D800, the 20-something megapixels FF camera hardly do anything better than a good APS camera do except for extreme ISO.
No agencies require photographers to use FF. Most photographers don't.
08-28-2012, 10:51 AM - 1 Like   #535
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That's why I don't understand why Pentax going Pro-APSC-DSLR would be so very hot. (As stated in various threads.)

1. Why buy such a camera if you can get a entry level FF for slightly more (or maybe even less?) money?!

2. And no matter how sophisticated such a Pro-APSC body would be, lots of people would consider the entry level FF body "more pro". That includes lots of angencies that require their photographers to use FF.
You're implying that once a camera is FF, it is automatically better than any APS-C. There are other criteria that define quality, as well as desirability. What if the entry-level FF is short on features? What if the extra stop or two benefit of FF is offset by superior hardware/software components elsewhere in the APS-C camera? At any given sensor size, some cameras are better than others, therefore a good APS-C would not necessarily lose out to a cheap FF in all departments. And all this ignores the fact that it is generally accepted that APS-C has it's own set of advantages over FF.
08-28-2012, 12:03 PM   #536
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
You're implying that once a camera is FF, it is automatically better than any APS-C. There are other criteria that define quality, as well as desirability. What if the entry-level FF is short on features? What if the extra stop or two benefit of FF is offset by superior hardware/software components elsewhere in the APS-C camera? At any given sensor size, some cameras are better than others, therefore a good APS-C would not necessarily lose out to a cheap FF in all departments. And all this ignores the fact that it is generally accepted that APS-C has it's own set of advantages over FF.

...and the fact that APS is a bona fide format in its own right which many are comfortable with and one that can provide stunning quality...
08-28-2012, 03:17 PM   #537
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
No 24-75 on the roadmap....
Which road map are you looking at? The one I have has a DA* zoom at the bottom in just that sort of range, and other (admittedly longer) DA* lenses are known to cover full frame....
08-28-2012, 03:28 PM   #538
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Which road map are you looking at? The one I have has a DA* zoom at the bottom in just that sort of range, and other (admittedly longer) DA* lenses are known to cover full frame....

I have the latest roadmap and the lens is a 16-85. It is color coded as an APS lens (which could be fake to disorient us but that is too far fetched for me). It is no way this is an FF lens and Pentax marketing boss have confirmed it as the replacement for the DA* 16-50/2.8.

The rest of the roadmap does not spell FF to me:
12-28;
22-38 Limited
18-220
120-380
550/5.6

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 08-28-2012 at 03:42 PM.
08-28-2012, 05:22 PM - 1 Like   #539
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Anyway, from a friend I consider in the 'know' and not a pure speculator.
APS-C camera at Photokina, FF early next year.
I believe hoping for an FF early next year is setting oneself up for disappointment.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Anyway, if the 24mp Pentax is APS and come without the anti-aliasing filter it says a lot about the future (or lack thereof) of Pentax FF.
I don't think that it "says a lot". Pentax just needs a bit more time. This is very unfortunate, but does not imply that they are not working on an FF camera right now.

QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
And all this ignores the fact that it is generally accepted that APS-C has it's own set of advantages over FF.
It is a matter of image quality. Beyond a certain image quality, FF becomes the cheaper option and then there are no APS-C advantages left.

Please have a look at Falk's (falconeye's) "The true reasons for a full frame camera" white paper.

P.S.: The "FF-non-believers" may want to browse through the "Some Full Frame Shots" thread. Even at web resolution you'll notice that FF cameras can produce a (shallow DOF) look that is impossible to achieve with an APS-C camera and many times the results have been achieved with cheap lenses such as the Nikon 85/1.8.
08-28-2012, 06:06 PM   #540
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After seeing those.. I now want a FF body. I don't have that kind of money.
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