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08-29-2012, 05:00 AM   #556
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Can we just accept we have no influence over this matter, and play the cards as they are dealt to us?
For most of us, it's all about taking photographs, and enjoying ourselves while we do it....

08-29-2012, 05:04 AM   #557
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
If Pentax APS (24mp), FF (24mp) and 645 (40mp) gets too close to one another many Pentax users will have a hard time deciding which one to buy. I don't think Pentax have the user base to have several different high-end cameras, not to mention lenses.
Currently, the 645D body is too expensive to be in that mix, but if they come up with a smaller, more lightweight and less expensive 645D, and at the same time an advanced 24mp follow-up to the K-5, your point may become valid indeed. If it's still a crop 645, the usual "MF is a completely different world" argument doesn't need to apply. It would just be a slightly-larger-than-FF camera.

Maybe they should just create a DFA*645 60mm f/1.2 so the fans of hair-thin DoF will flock to the 645D system
08-29-2012, 05:05 AM   #558
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
In that interview at CP+, the Pentax spokesman said straight to the camera that there is stuff under development that is not shown on the roadmap, and said it directly as a matter of course, no weasel words. If Pentax is secretly developing FF lenses (a distinct possibility), they are simply not on the roadmap. This is vastly more probable than assuming the marketing people made the bars clearly extend well beyond the 20 and 80mm lines as a red herring.
It is pretty obvious to me that if Pentax plans FF the lenses are simply not on the roadmap. Why should they be? It makes more sense to reveal the lenses along with the camera than making cryptic and unreliable roadmaps that make potential customers for the APS lenses on that very map unhappy when the lenses turn out to be somthing very different and more expensive.
08-29-2012, 05:05 AM   #559
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Can we just accept we have no influence over this matter, and play the cards as they are dealt to us?
For most of us, it's all about taking photographs, and enjoying ourselves while we do it....
How can you enjoy yourself without an FF camera....

08-29-2012, 05:06 AM - 1 Like   #560
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Not at all. Bigger formats have obvious image quality advantages over smaller formats. Pentax problem is what they can sell and where to put the resources. I can't see that 5% share provider than make a plethora of cameras in every DSLR sector and be sucessful at it. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic....

I would buy a Pentax FF camera the moment it is released. I own only one APS lens and that one is going to be replaced anyway. I own a complete set of Pentax FF lenses from 18 to 600mm.
See, most wildlife or sports shooters would probably stick with APS-C for obvious reasons.
Doesn't require investment in very long glass Pentax doesn't even have yet :P.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
It is pretty obvious to me that if Pentax plans FF the lenses are simply not on the roadmap. Why should they be? It makes more sense to reveal the lenses along with the camera than making cryptic and unreliable roadmaps that make potential customers for the APS lenses on that very map unhappy when the lenses turn out to be somthing very different and more expensive.
Yes, yes. Pentax should develop a 28-70 and define it as DA, for APS-C on the roadmap. The irritation would be priceless.
08-29-2012, 05:15 AM   #561
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Currently, the 645D body is too expensive to be in that mix, but if they come up with a smaller, more lightweight and less expensive 645D, and at the same time an advanced 24mp follow-up to the K-5, your point may become valid indeed. If it's still a crop 645, the usual "MF is a completely different world" argument doesn't need to apply. It would just be a slightly-larger-than-FF camera.p
That is what I think will happen. The fact that Pentax have adopted the DA naming for MF is very telling in my opinion. This, together with the fact that the roadmapped 28~45 would cost more than $5000 if it covers the full 645 frame (the 33-55 was a challenging enough design; the 25mm prime cost $5000; they desperately need a cheaper wide angle solution). However, if it is a cropped lens lens for the 645 system it will be far more affordable. So thats what I think it is and that means that 645 is approaching FF from above. Theres also rumors that Pentax will drop the price of the 645 camera.
08-29-2012, 05:57 AM   #562
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
This, together with the fact that the roadmapped 28~45 would cost more than $5000 if it covers the full 645 frame (the 33-55 was a challenging enough design; the 25mm prime cost $5000; they desperately need a cheaper wide angle solution).
Hmm, but if they keep the current crop, a 28-45 would be like a 22-35 on FF, wouldn't that be kind of unimpressive? If they're really going to compete with FF, they need something like a 30-90 zoom for the cropped format. But who knows, maybe they're looking at slightly larger, but still not "FF 645" sensors? Rice High dreamt about a 48x36 sensor the other day - is that a serious possibility?
08-29-2012, 09:28 AM   #563
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Even if the K-3 comes out at the high end like the Sony A99 rumor of $2,800 that is still not in the same class as the $10,000 645D body and $5,000 25mm wide angle.
Sony A99 Specs Leak: Full Frame 24MP Sensor and Lightweight
Pentax 645D Medium Format DSLR Camera Body 17971
Pentax 645D FA 25mm f/4 AL (IF) SDM AW Lens 26370

08-29-2012, 09:37 AM   #564
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
(...) Rice High dreamt about a 48x36 sensor the other day - is that a serious possibility?
Yes it is. It's quite a common dimension among medium format sensors. There is for instance a 50 Mpixels from Kodak (today Truesense Imaging) with the same technology and pixel pitch as the 40 Mpixels 33x44 sensor the 645D is equipped with.
08-29-2012, 09:47 AM   #565
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Yep, too bad Pentax released it's DA 25mm f/4 instead of the D-FA version, tough sending the message they intend to keep on with the cropped sensor MF line...
08-29-2012, 10:07 AM   #566
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Yep, too bad Pentax released it's DA 25mm f/4 instead of the D-FA version, tough sending the message they intend to keep on with the cropped sensor MF line...
DA doesn't have to mean that they're keeping the current crop size!
08-29-2012, 10:09 AM   #567
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Yep, too bad Pentax released it's DA 25mm f/4 instead of the D-FA version, tough sending the message they intend to keep on with the cropped sensor MF line...
NO DA25/4. There is DFA645 25/4 AL (IF) SDM AW lens which covers 56*41.5 mm MF full frame sensor.
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08-29-2012, 10:20 AM   #568
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http://www.pentaximaging.com/camera-lenses/smc_PENTAX_DA_645_25mm_F4_AL_(IF)_SDM_AW

Please, update ogl
But OK, it was not on any road-map

QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
DA doesn't have to mean that they're keeping the current crop size!
I didn't say "are keeping", but "send the message they intend to"
By the way they were'nt explicit on their intentions at all, nor gave any clear justification of such a new model.
Nobody seems yet to know if DA25/4 has any other difference than image circle to DFA25/4, e.g. in optic formula.

To conclude, Pentax lacks communication on their product orientation as a whole.
This doesn't help securing their customer base, nor enlarging it.

Last edited by Zygonyx; 08-29-2012 at 10:30 AM.
08-29-2012, 10:56 AM   #569
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Even if the K-3 comes out at the high end like the Sony A99 rumor of $2,800 that is still not in the same class as the $10,000 645D body and $5,000 25mm wide angle.
Sony A99 Specs Leak: Full Frame 24MP Sensor and Lightweight
Pentax 645D Medium Format DSLR Camera Body 17971
Pentax 645D FA 25mm f/4 AL (IF) SDM AW Lens 26370
What happened to that dirt cheap 24mp FF Sony sensor?
Prices seems to increase exponentrially with larger sensors. THe wide angle price is a problem for Pentax. I hope the roadmapped wide angle zoom will adress that.
A 24mp APS Pentax would probably cost less than half of the rumored 24mp Sony FF camera. $2800 is what I would expect a Pentax FF to cost so rumors seem credible to me.

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 08-29-2012 at 11:02 AM.
08-29-2012, 11:00 AM   #570
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Hmm, but if they keep the current crop, a 28-45 would be like a 22-35 on FF, wouldn't that be kind of unimpressive? If they're really going to compete with FF, they need something like a 30-90 zoom for the cropped format. But who knows, maybe they're looking at slightly larger, but still not "FF 645" sensors? Rice High dreamt about a 48x36 sensor the other day - is that a serious possibility?
28-45 is very impressive for MF; in fact, unheard of. It seems to be exponetially more expensive to make lenses the larger the coverage. In addition, since this lens is going to be used on a high resolution device by critical users it needs to be of very good quality.
This lens is also the wide angle solution. Theres also a standard zoom lens on the roadmap (can't remeber the focal lenght range now).
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