[eddie1960]

Not expensive is anywhere under 300.00 for me.
What MF can I get for that?

Loads of good TLR's available in that price point, almost all the LOMO of course but not if you are looking for quality. I would think a basic Bronica kit from any of the various series (SW, SQai,Etr, Etrsi, Z,D,C,S,S2a,EC) so basically all except the GS1 and RF534 Bronica, should be available body/back/normal lens. Easiest to find being the Etr/Etrsi and SQ and SQai probably (645 and 6x6 respectively)
older mamiyas a basic kit probably as well. If you look hard enough maybe even an old Hassy. I've seen Pentax 645 kits in this range occasionally too though never a 6x7
then there are all the old folders literally hundreds of them and 90% are less than $300

[thibs]

Mamiya Cxx TLR's (6x6) also for cheap.

[NightPorter]

Pentax is hurting their fans and thinks they are stupid.
K-5 will be my last Pentax camera if Pentax will not launch FF in coming months.
Pentax will be a hopeless company and I will go for Nikon D800.
If Pentax is still disappointing their Pentaxians, I believe there are a lot of Pentaxians will jump this boat like me

[Pioneer]

Pentax is hurting their fans and thinks they are stupid.
K-5 will be my last Pentax camera if Pentax will not launch FF in coming months.
Pentax will be a hopeless company and I will go for Nikon D800.
If Pentax is still disappointing their Pentaxians, I believe there are a lot of Pentaxians will jump this boat like me

If a full frame camera is the only thing that will make you happy, and you can not, or will not, buy the Pentax 645D, then you may need to go to another company to get what you need.

But don't make the mistake of believing that Pentax is a "hopeless" company. In the last couple of years they have made available some terrific equipment for Pentaxians. I already mentioned the 645D, but there is also the K5, the Q, the K01, and now the K30. This is a long string of magnificent equipment. You may not be interested in any of these cameras, but they are very near, or at the top of their respective market categories. That ain't too shabby for a "hopeless company!"

[thibs]

That ain't too shabby for a "hopeless company!"

Maybe the customers are hopeless as the company itself.

[Zygonyx]

Pentax is hurting their fans and thinks they are stupid.
K-5 will be my last Pentax camera if Pentax will not launch FF in coming months.
Pentax will be a hopeless company and I will go for Nikon D800.
If Pentax is still disappointing their Pentaxians, I believe there are a lot of Pentaxians will jump this boat like me

I understand the forthcomming monthes are indeed crucial in this respect : go for FF, or die progressively.

Compact FF is the only responsible question to serious upgrade in quality as achieved with mirrorless market-share progression, and also to valuable FF K-mount lenses parks lots of their customers do have.

Pentax should have taken the lead in FF mirrorless, instead of lauching an APS-C K-01.

And now with the comming of Nikon D600 and probable Canon counterpart, they risk missing the train for the third time... this will be the last imo.

[Fontan]

I am fairly positively certain that no matter what Pentax will come out with(or Canon or Nikon or Sony for that matter), your pictures won't look all that different from what they were few years ago.

Somehow we the consumers including myself are led to believe that this is not the case. This is where the ultimate stupidity lies, and this perpetuates camera industry.

Yes we are stupid, and Pentax knows it.

[Raffwal]

What!?!? Blasphemy! Are you suggesting that we can't buy ourselves happy?!

[Uluru]

Pentax should have taken the lead in FF mirrorless, instead of lauching an APS-C K-01.

I think they should explore every avenue and K-01 is a logical step to keep the K mount happy in the mirrorless world.
There are people who will really use sans-mirror designs of cameras for their work, and Pentax is smart for allowing them to do so.
What on Earth is wrong with that?!? K-02, or whatever it will be called, can be only better and come with more features.

And now with the comming of Nikon D600 and probable Canon counterpart, they risk missing the train for the third time... this will be the last imo.

Well, although what you say is theoretically correct and has implications, in real life that theory is hollow, because none of us here knows anything about Pentax's plans for the FF world. And they would be stupid to announce anything ahead, before big three do they announcements first. Remember when the K-5 was announced, and a day or two afterwards a D7000 was announced by Nikon too, catching everyone off guard? Pentax then quickly changed the marketing blurb about the K-5's ISO, to top the number of the D7000's marketing info. In theory what Pentax was claiming was possible, and they did it. And perhaps because of that, K-5 is still in high regard.

So while the act is still in play, keep watching because like in a good horse race, last seconds will decide final specs and features of all the cameras.

[Pål Jensen]

Well, although what you say is theoretically correct and has implications, in real life that theory is hollow, because none of us here knows anything about Pentax's plans for the FF world.

What we do know is that the Canon 7D alone outsells all FF cameras on planet combined by a significant margin. The FF hysterics is out of all propotions and promoted by a handful of posters. It is fine that some want it, but the world of photography and Pentax future doesn't depend on it. The future of any company doesn't depend on what any one of us might want. Thats an important distinction...

[Fontan]

What!?!? Blasphemy!

That is my specialty.

[ElJamoquio]

What we do know is that the Canon 7D alone outsells all FF cameras on planet combined by a significant margin.

How do we know that again?

[MMVIII]

Come on.
If not... then sentences with Pentax are as old as the internet. Be it "if not the mystic flagship Mz-1, then..." 15 years ago or "if not FF now, then..". also an entreaty coming before every major show. But here they are, having a lineup of the best APS-C cameras, a digital 645 camera, which seems to sell over expectations, one of the nicest compact system cameras with the Q (at least I like mine a lot!).

Pentax is a major (technologywise) manufacturer which has just one achilles heel: the sensors. That's why the Mz-D had to be cancelled, that's why the 645D had to be delayed, that's why they tried to go with Samsung to break the Sony monopol and that's why they can bring now every kind of camera with the great K-5 sensor they can trust to be available to them.

If there was a lesson to be learned from Pentax history, than that Pentax always added a new product to their lineup, as soon as the sensor to be used was widely available. If you wish a FF-Pentax just have a look which mainstream FF-sensors are available. If there is going to be a Nikon D600 than the chance is high to see this sensor in a Pentax.

Even if I think that this might not be as desireable, or even crucial for the company as some here may express, I would not mind having a solid (sic!) - in the sense of rugged and simple - 35mm sensored addition to the bread-and-butter APS-C system, which should still be the main line for technological development. Just because the dependency on the sensor developers will always give Pentax a hard time to develop the next camera with a larger sensor as fast as others or even their own APS-C line.

just my 2c

[nanok]

"how long have i been away?" not long it seems, nothing changed.

may i respectfully suggest you "give us a break" (and particularly some people who think their rant is so essential and insightful they should cross post it to several threads. that's beyond rude and narcissistic, some native speaker help me here, i can't find the right word; meanwhile: please just don't #%# do it).

pentax has been facing extinction due to "lack of full frame" for 5 years or so now, at least as long as i've been shooting pentax dslrs. here's the news for you: nobody cares, i'm sorry, but nobody does. it's not my opinion, it's just plain cold fact. the k-5 still rocks, still was loved by many new and old pentaxians, life went on (same goes for k7, k20, k10, etc)

there's been, of course, the very few who put their money where their mouth was, and moved on: bought canon or nikon "full frame" (can we please say 35mm btw? full frame is almost insulting to us humble aps-c shooters). those were few, those are the ones who meant it. many of them stayed on here and kept their "decadents aps-c" pentax gear, you rarely hear them bitch. There's many who are still here, still full-frame-less (sic) and still bitching. It evades me as to "why".

there are many formats in the history of photography. a few medium format ones (645, 66, 67, 69, all completely different btw), the famous 35mm (aka cinematographic format), aps (initially what was, imho, a silly mistake of the "film era", and met with quick failure, which it deserved; but it proved it's worth with the coming of digital imaging technology), 4/3, and the list goes on. What seems to elude most people is that these are different formats. I have never in my life heard somebody bitch about leica not coming up with a 6x6 camera, or 645: people would buy a bronica or whatever they fancied, and get on with it. "full frame" (in fact 35mm) is a different format, it's not a bigger aps-c, it's not "what aps-c tries to be but will never be", in the same way 35mm was never a 6x6 wannabee. In the film days, there were those who bitched about the 35mm inferiority, and how medium format rocks and so on. they usually owned and shot both formats, or at least the medium format, and they still missed the point, anyway, but at least they talked about what they knew and owned (and, in some cases, used).

i'm sorry, but i'm getting a bit sick and tired with this "pentax _needs_ to come with ff or they are dead, i'm jumping ship, i'll set the building on fire, etc". grow up. If you want full frame, go buy it. If you can't afford it, don't expect pentax to make a fully featured ff camera and sell it for 700bucks (just because they managed to sell something like the k-5 for a price well bellow what anybody else asks), when pentax will be able to sell a ff for what you can afford, everybody else will, so please sit down, be quiet, and wait. maybe the time will come. maybe soon. or maybe not so soon, or maybe never. If you care that much, and you think it really matters to you for whatever reason, just save up and buy what's available now, but i think childish threats are not helping anybody.

this has been going on for years now. aps-c is not going anywhere, despite various wishes and pipedreams of some people. it's a different format, has it's place, and will stay. even the (seemingly useless) 4/3 format is still around and doing fine, how come olympus is not dead in the water? (note to self: check if olympus users are bitching that oly must come with aps-c or they will "set the building on fire")

pentax might come with a ff camera, or they might not. if they do, there will be joy. there will be celebrations and parties all over the world. much drinking and dancing and ...ahem.. social interaction. the next day, 10 of those dslr's will be sold, 5 having been bought by pentax forums members (none of which ever said they want ff or they will commit murder). the k5 (or whatever it's successor) and the k30 (or whatever) and so on (the outdated, inferior, useless, dead-at-inception aps-c cameras in the line) will still outsell it 1/100 or more, however you care to count, and nothing would have changed. nothing. even the bitching would go on, somehow.

/me puts on the fireproof cape and walks away, calmly

[sqjaw]

Sorry just bought a used K7 :") )

Oh Lordy!! Where's my checkbook.

I have a very nice K7 and Canon 5D for sale, anyone interested?