[sjwaldron]

pentax has been facing extinction due to "lack of full frame" for 5 years or so now, at least as long as i've been shooting pentax dslrs. here's the news for you: nobody cares, i'm sorry, but nobody does. it's not my opinion, it's just plain cold fact. the k-5 still rocks, still was loved by many new and old pentaxians, life went on (same goes for k7, k20, k10, etc)

there's been, of course, the very few who put their money where their mouth was, and moved on: bought canon or nikon "full frame" (can we please say 35mm btw? full frame is almost insulting to us humble aps-c shooters). those were few, those are the ones who meant it. many of them stayed on here and kept their "decadents aps-c" pentax gear, you rarely hear them bitch. There's many who are still here, still full-frame-less (sic) and still bitching. It evades me as to "why".

I'd like to agree, but I don't think that is completely true. On here, while not the best indicator, we see various posts about someone who left for the big two due to FF as well as current Pentaxians that have a FF from another company to supplement their Pentax kit.

I know of at least one person locally who was a strong Pentaxian but switched to Nikon for photography business reasons. I think it might have been more flash system related than FF, but I'm sure both were considered. Edit, I just thought of another local that sold their K-5 for a FF Canon I believe.

[nanok]

exactly, that's the "very few", and they are the least vocal ones usually. the people who mean it (they really believe they need 35mm and are willing to actually pay the price) have bought what was available when they needed it. the rest of us are just counting our pennies or just "hanging around over beer", talking about stuff which we don't really, honestly, think affects us (like people talk about politics and the weather in the other hemisphere). it's quite simple: if one really wants "fullframe", one can buy it, _now_, so one either does, or doesn't, your observation proves the point. it's really hard to argue with reality, we're not talking about going to mars, but about buying some mass produced product which is readily available, so what's the problem? the name on the pentaprism? brand fidelity? please...

those who do buy are still few, by comparison.

[TAP]

exactly, that's the "very few", and they are the least vocal ones usually. the people who mean it (they really believe they need 35mm and are willing to actually pay the price) have bought what was available when they needed it. the rest of us are just counting our pennies or just "hanging around over beer", talking about stuff which we don't really, honestly, think affects us (like people talk about politics and the weather in the other hemisphere). it's quite simple: if one really wants "fullframe", one can buy it, _now_, so one either does, or doesn't, your observation proves the point. it's really hard to argue with reality, we're not talking about going to mars, but about buying some mass produced product which is readily available, so what's the problem? the name on the pentaprism? brand fidelity? please...

those who do buy are still few, by comparison.

You are certainly correct in saying that many Pentaxians can not afford [or will not purchase] a Pentax full-frame DSLR. We're definitely not talking about going to Mars, but the issue of full-frame is a rather big deal when brought down to the scale of competing DSLR manufacturers.

Photographers are loyal to their brand like sports fans to their favorite team; we want to see them thrive. We want to see Pentax succeed by producing a quality, superior product that outshines, or at least rivals the competition. We want Pentax to gain a stronger foothold and be seen as a [more] worthy competitor. We want leverage.

The issue for many of us is not so much that we need a full-frame DSLR, it's that we want to see Pentax persevere. Staying relevant, and up-to-date is a key aspect in any successful business. This is something Pentax needs to do, not for the sake of their user base, but for the prosperity of the Pentax brand.

[nanok]

as selfless and noble as that sounds, i tend to not believe it . but i'll play along: if i were to believe it, there's only one problem: it doesn't really work, because to come out with a product which your userbase is not able to "consume" is simply misguided, and potentially deadly if you're small enough. developing a 35mm slr and marketing it at the current price, at which the vast majority won't buy, is something pentax probably can't afford, especially when that is likely to be at the detriment of their aps-c flagship: so you end up in a situation where your "bread and butter" aps-c is no longer "competitive" (as we're so used to it being: great bang for the buck, great image quality, etc), and you also have an upper market 35mm dslr for which your consumers are not ready, and for the most part cant or wont buy, that spells trouble, to say the least, _that_ is "doom and gloom". my rough estimate is that pentax is not realistically safe to release a 35mm dslr before 1. they can sell it comfortably at around 1k bucks (i'm not talking about release price, but about "that" price which settles after a few months, see k5's price history) and 2. they have a solid lens lineup for it. I'm afraid 1 is still far, despite the pipe-dream rumors of "cheap" full frames from the big two (cheap will likely mean just bellow 2k, if that low)

i like pentax myself, and i'd hate to see them go, i have very good reasons to prefer them over "the others". this is why i'm glad they have been wise enough not to plunge into the 35mm madness before the time is right. and the time is yet not right, imho.

and btw, no, pro market won't be penetrated through the existence of one 35mm body, it takes a lot more than that, and a lot of very different things. 35mm is almost irrelevant, i think, in fact. so no salvation would come from there (not to mention pro market is probably infinitesimal for even the big two, and they are said to dominate it).

again, having a 35mm dslr has nothing to do with up to date, in the same way honda doesn't need to sell trucks just because ford sells the transit, and as to relevant, i guess it's obvious: if the brands consumers won't buy it, that's definitely not relevant. Just giving the "brand fanatics" "bragging rights" (because "there's a full frame, now") does not qualify as relevant.

i'd love to be proven wrong, and see a 35mm pentax released at photokina at say a 1300 bucks release price (or maybe even a bit higher, at release), though i feel that's unlikely, but i'd really hate to be proven "wrong" by a release around the 2k mark, and than be proven right by the unavoidable crash caused by it

[Pioneer]

Sorry just bought a used K7 :") )

Yeah. Changed my mind anyway. The 5D works great and I went out and bought a Q, which is one sweet little camera. I think I'll probably pass on a Pentax full frame for now.

[Fontan]

You are certainly correct in saying that many Pentaxians can not afford [or will not purchase] a Pentax full-frame DSLR. We're definitely not talking about going to Mars, but the issue of full-frame is a rather big deal when brought down to the scale of competing DSLR manufacturers.

Photographers are loyal to their brand like sports fans to their favorite team; we want to see them thrive. We want to see Pentax succeed by producing a quality, superior product that outshines, or at least rivals the competition. We want Pentax to gain a stronger foothold and be seen as a [more] worthy competitor. We want leverage.

The issue for many of us is not so much that we need a full-frame DSLR, it's that we want to see Pentax persevere. Staying relevant, and up-to-date is a key aspect in any successful business. This is something Pentax needs to do, not for the sake of their user base, but for the prosperity of the Pentax brand.

At least for me, the loyalty is not so much to the brand, but to the degree of fiscal (not emotional) investment to the lens mount, more or less. I can completely careless what logo it has in front of that pentaprism, really, although "Leica" looks pretty cool, I will admit.

To be honest, amongst any Japanese brands, I cannot tell from the end results which brand was used to get there. I don't think it makes that much difference in the end. So called avid photographers (as opposed to professional) are hooked and dragged to the bank to nearly empty the account by the cleverly fabricated sense of brand loyalty. The trap is so huge and there for everyone to see, but so easy to fall into it.

[MetteHHH]

I'm with you, Fontan: Back in the film days I was an Olympus user (OM-10), and I liked olympus. I borrowed a Canon camera from my brother before I went digital, and I liked that. When I wanted to invest in a digital SLR myself, I considered price and practical issues, and I settled for Pentax because of weather sealing, in house stabilisation and the ability to use old glass.

But now I am here. I am a very happy Pentax user, but I don't worship every object with a Pentax logo on it. I WOULD like to see a bright future for the company though, so that my kit can be kept up to date.

For now, I don't have money or need for FF - but I still hope to see one at Photokina, because: 1) I believe the market is moving towards a broader consumer base for FF, and wanting Pentax to thrive I don't want them to be left behind. 2) I think it signals interest in the enthusiast/pro market, which I expect will strenghten the development of the kind of gear that interests me, rather than all the development activities being targetted at brightly coloured, funny, social-sharing friendly, gadget cameras.

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Last edited by MetteHHH; 09-03-2012 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Grammar

[Kunzite]

I don't worship every object with a Pentax logo on it.

Nobody is.

[Luin Gor]

I'm quite impatient about all this !

It's weird that we have no serious rumor...

[LamyTax]

I'm quite impatient about all this !

It's weird that we have no serious rumor...

And how would you distinguish serious rumour from made-up rumours?

[Nitrok]

Google Translate

[topace]

And how would you distinguish serious rumour from made-up rumours?

When source explicitly states that it was a dream? ;-)

Eliminating that, we really don't have that many rumors, even hard-to-believe ones. Basically, it's the FF 24MP (RH), 36MP FF (conjecture, wishful thinking), 24MP APS-C (conjecture, logical upgrade), 16MP APS-C (conjecture. This would make what, pentaxes 5th 16MP APS-C camera?), A new 645D (also conjecture).

Not a lot to go on. But seems to me, Pentax has always been thus.

[ogl]

Google Translate

K-3 is 24 MP APS-C camera.

[ogl]

I've heard also about K-5N model...Sometimes, I think that it's myth, but I have new info that K5N could be real..

[RonHendriks1966]

I've heard also about K-5N model...

That would be great, I love to hold an for another generation to my K-5 body and the 16mp.