Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-04-2012, 12:14 AM   #16
Veteran Member
anthony mazzeri's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 312
QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
I agree.
The Sony 24mp seems to be a trade off here and there.
In fact, Nikon offering it on the D3200 seems to suggest that Nikon has dismissed it as 'fit for entry level'
Anyway, its just a rumor....
What if there are two 24mp sensors. The leaked specs of the upcoming Nikon D400 states it too will have a 24mp sensor, so unless Nikon is planning to also upgrade their D7000 and D5100 cameras to the exact same 24mp across the board in each as well, you'd have to assume the one in the top-level D400 will somehow be better or at least different to the one in the base-model D3200.

The D400 is likewise being late to release beyond the patience of the Nikon faithful, so could be a clue there it's in the same boat as the K-5 replacement.

08-04-2012, 01:18 AM   #17
Pentaxian
bossa's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 4,538
Maybe Nikon is moving out of APS-C and concentrating on FF.

Maybe there is a 40MP APS-C sensor we don't know about..

maybe pigs can fly (but only when you're not looking)
08-04-2012, 02:35 AM   #18
Senior Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bondi, Australia
Posts: 206
K5 replacement

When smaller format cameras hit higher megapixels such as 40MP, just what will FF prove? At this stage, the lenses will need to be improved. Given the best that the old 35mm film could attain(80 MP equivalent) with best case scenario(Tec pan 25 ISO with best lens at best aperture.) Such shots could be blown up to 16 x 20 inch easily and were grainless. How often do we NEED to enlarge to that sort of size? For those odd shots that do need to be blown up so large, stitching programs can be used. Static landscapes that benefit from a lot of detail need the megapixels, but stitching can give gigapixels. Sports action that cannot be stitched does not rely on high detail- timing the action is what counts. Looks like macro and wildlife is where FF could be useful, at a cost of weight and cost. I suspect that like 35mm film, full frame sensors for regular non professional use has passed its use-by date. Pentax has probably missed the FF boat unless they can pull out some category-killer feature.
I believe the next round of APS format DSLRs will be mainly around the 24MP. Remember when 3.2MP was the ants pants? The next step up from 24MP could well be 40MP in 18 months time. Something to look forward to.
08-04-2012, 06:43 AM   #19
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 666
QuoteOriginally posted by fisheye freak Quote
When smaller format cameras hit higher megapixels such as 40MP, just what will FF prove? At this stage, the lenses will need to be improved. Given the best that the old 35mm film could attain(80 MP equivalent) with best case scenario(Tec pan 25 ISO with best lens at best aperture.) Such shots could be blown up to 16 x 20 inch easily and were grainless. How often do we NEED to enlarge to that sort of size? For those odd shots that do need to be blown up so large, stitching programs can be used. Static landscapes that benefit from a lot of detail need the megapixels, but stitching can give gigapixels. Sports action that cannot be stitched does not rely on high detail- timing the action is what counts. Looks like macro and wildlife is where FF could be useful, at a cost of weight and cost. I suspect that like 35mm film, full frame sensors for regular non professional use has passed its use-by date. Pentax has probably missed the FF boat unless they can pull out some category-killer feature.
I believe the next round of APS format DSLRs will be mainly around the 24MP. Remember when 3.2MP was the ants pants? The next step up from 24MP could well be 40MP in 18 months time. Something to look forward to.
My concern with a smaller format hitting higher megapixels is noise/low light performance. When I am editing a wedding where my second shooter had a ff I do not need to apply noise reduction in the same way that I have to for my shots from the k5. Yes, in the end the shots are indistinguishable but every bit of post processing I can get is helpful and the lower light I can shoot in too, because some of those churches out there are pretty dark and don't allow flash.

In addition to ff being useful for sports (IMHO that requires both timing and detail to get it right), landscapes (so you don't have to stitch), macro and wildlife, ff is also great at events and parties. When you add all of those things up, it is a pretty attractive camera for an amateur photographer with a family and a little bit of money. It would cover every type of shooting they would want/need to do. I see a lot of dslr cameras out at weddings and some guests have easily out spent me for their kits. I do believe there is a market for ff for the advanced amateur and that is why we are seeing those rumors of a Nikon and canon ff at or below $2000. Pentax could come in around that $2000 price and with better features as it would be their top of the line and start to really build from that niche market. Of course, Pentax would also be selling the to all the pros out their using them and to people like the ones on here who have expressed that desire for ff.

As to 16x20 prints, if you aren't printing large frequently you should start! Of course my pro stuff has a need to be printed this large all the time, people love a large print of their wedding. But I print large for my house too. There is something really satisifying about having a huge print - much more than looking at the image on a screen.

08-04-2012, 12:54 PM   #20
wll
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mission Hills, CA
Posts: 773
Yes, The Tiltable Screen is of Major Importance

QuoteOriginally posted by krugorg Quote
I hope a K-02 comes out soon. Not to beat a well-dead horse, but a couple tweaks like a tilt screen and the option of an external viewfinder would make a huge difference. But... I think it would make sense for Pentax to release a new APS-C based compact system (new mount, lenses) instead, and then focus on FF for the DSLR side.

I would be okay with a K5 with 24mpx APS-C sensor, if they don't have the same corner issues that Sony seems to have in their implementation. Not sure if it is the AA filter, microlenses, diffraction or what.
The tiltable screen and the EVF are the two issues why I went to the Sony NEX system, even though ALL my equipment is Pentax. Can't
tell you how many K20D's I own, a couple of Kx's and a K-5, not to mention just about every lens Pentax makes !

Pentax really blew it for me when they came out with a mirrorless camera without a tiltable screen and EVF, two major mistakes IMHO.


wll
08-04-2012, 01:05 PM   #21
Senior Member
userage's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 198
If their Full Frame could record in RAW... :'l
08-04-2012, 01:45 PM   #22
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Mexico
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,125
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Full-frame is where the whole DSLR industry is heading IMO...I hope Pentax follows suit with such a model within the coming year, now that even point-and-shoot cameras are being made with APS-C sensors.
I'm not sure about the future of DSLRs, but the rest of the camera industry is not heading towards FF. If it were, then micro 4/3 cameras and lenses would not be flying off the shelves at such a tremendous pace. More people value small size and low weight than they do ultimate IQ, and now that smaller sensors are delivering such excellent IQ, the need for the larger, heavier cameras is actually less than ever. This is not to say that no one wants or needs FF, but it will always be a niche market. Heck, I'm even thinking seriously about getting a Sony RX100 as a backup camera. The images that I have seen from it look really good, and the lens is remarkably fast.

Rob
08-04-2012, 07:23 PM   #23
Pentaxian
littledrawe's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Red Rock
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,434
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
However, I'm wondering if you would be willing to break your thoughts into paragraphs in the future? It is rather hard to read a wall of text.
That is because it was written by a robot made for trolling.

08-04-2012, 07:59 PM   #24
New Member




Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Missouri
Posts: 14
Has anyone noticed that Pentax just patented a new 60mm prime for full frame? The logical question is why would they do that? Unless they were i the process of creating a FF model.
08-04-2012, 11:50 PM   #25
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 376
QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
I'm not sure about the future of DSLRs, but the rest of the camera industry is not heading towards FF. If it were, then micro 4/3 cameras and lenses would not be flying off the shelves at such a tremendous pace. More people value small size and low weight than they do ultimate IQ, and now that smaller sensors are delivering such excellent IQ, the need for the larger, heavier cameras is actually less than ever. This is not to say that no one wants or needs FF, but it will always be a niche market. Heck, I'm even thinking seriously about getting a Sony RX100 as a backup camera. The images that I have seen from it look really good, and the lens is remarkably fast.

Rob
The "rest" of the camera industry, that is, the majority, has always made compact cameras for the masses. The need for FF isn't about those people.
The whole DSLR-sector is a niche.


QuoteOriginally posted by dbaird Quote
Has anyone noticed that Pentax just patented a new 60mm prime for full frame? The logical question is why would they do that? Unless they were i the process of creating a FF model.
Lenses at that focal length or longer often have a FF-compatible design anyway. And what do you think? Of course they are working on one.
08-05-2012, 02:11 AM   #26
Ede
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jul 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4
For me it seems that the manufacturers are running out of selling arguments in a way. I remember 1.5 -2 years ago we faced the high ISO numbers as arguments for buying a camera. I mean, who is really in need of 100k+ ISO? But the fact that it is possible to achieve the ISO might be an argument for those people who do care for those features. The same thing was going on with the small cameras using interchangeable lenses (J1, EOS-M, Pen, Q, GF, etc.) Everything is getting smaller and better but in my opinion manufacturers could have done that even earlier. Manufacturers / brands need arguments to make their products attractive and they cannot throw all their arguments on the market at once. So now we are facing the MP increase on APCs and FF DSLRs, entry lvl FF. Next year or even earlier we will have the MP Trend with the small interchangeable lens cameras. Who knows how long it takes we see the first ILC with FF in size of a Q or Panasonic GF.
08-05-2012, 04:14 AM   #27
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 376
QuoteOriginally posted by Ede Quote
For me it seems that the manufacturers are running out of selling arguments in a way. I remember 1.5 -2 years ago we faced the high ISO numbers as arguments for buying a camera. I mean, who is really in need of 100k+ ISO? But the fact that it is possible to achieve the ISO might be an argument for those people who do care for those features. The same thing was going on with the small cameras using interchangeable lenses (J1, EOS-M, Pen, Q, GF, etc.) Everything is getting smaller and better but in my opinion manufacturers could have done that even earlier. Manufacturers / brands need arguments to make their products attractive and they cannot throw all their arguments on the market at once. So now we are facing the MP increase on APCs and FF DSLRs, entry lvl FF. Next year or even earlier we will have the MP Trend with the small interchangeable lens cameras. Who knows how long it takes we see the first ILC with FF in size of a Q or Panasonic GF.
A camera with 2.5mpix is more than enough for Facebook, standard sized prints, web presentation and (rare) projecting. 6mpix is plenty.
So we're already long beyond "reasonable" cameras for the mass market. I don't think manufactures are out of arguments for that.

People want great image quality, even beyond their needs, and for that, you can go a long way, and at the end of that way, a bigger sensor will always have the edge.
We're not even close to what film was able to deliver resolution wise, btw.
08-05-2012, 05:34 AM - 1 Like   #28
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4
Totally agree with you Allison. DoF control is another aspect that FF brings to the table. And big prints are great. I still have a P67ii. I love printing large from it's negatives.
08-05-2012, 09:27 AM   #29
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,413
QuoteOriginally posted by Ede Quote
For me it seems that the manufacturers are running out of selling arguments in a way. I remember 1.5 -2 years ago we faced the high ISO numbers as arguments for buying a camera. I mean, who is really in need of 100k+ ISO? But the fact that it is possible to achieve the ISO might be an argument for those people who do care for those features. The same thing was going on with the small cameras using interchangeable lenses (J1, EOS-M, Pen, Q, GF, etc.) Everything is getting smaller and better but in my opinion manufacturers could have done that even earlier. Manufacturers / brands need arguments to make their products attractive and they cannot throw all their arguments on the market at once. So now we are facing the MP increase on APCs and FF DSLRs, entry lvl FF. Next year or even earlier we will have the MP Trend with the small interchangeable lens cameras. Who knows how long it takes we see the first ILC with FF in size of a Q or Panasonic GF.
Recent sensor technology is what has made small cameras like the Q possible. Until BSI CMOS sensors you just could not get good quality from these small cameras at anything other than base ISO. The higher ISO also allows for smaller/cheaper lenses.

You will not see a FF camera the size of the Q. The image circle projected by the lens requires a lens mount that is larger than the Q.

For people who don't use flash and try to avoid artificial light, ISO 100K is needed. For the longest time I used my 5D (3200 ISO max) with the idea that 3200 was really all I needed. I shot TMAX 3200 for years. With my K-5 I am shooting ISO 4K + quite often with results that are much better than FF film at 3200. Now I find myself wishing for 12K all the time. It is human nature to want to improve. To want to push for better. Let's not stop.

Last edited by Winder; 08-05-2012 at 09:33 AM.
08-05-2012, 09:47 AM   #30
Pentaxian
JohnBee's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: front of computer
Posts: 4,496
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Now I find myself wishing for 12K all the time. It is human nature to want to improve. To want to push for better. Let's not stop.
Amen to that!
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
k5, model, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, replacement, sensor
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will there be a K-R replacement soon? redogman67 Pentax DSLR Discussion 15 09-25-2011 09:39 AM
K5 replacement warranty ivoire Pentax K-5 3 08-22-2011 12:15 PM
Replacement K-5. Mike.P Pentax K-5 36 04-03-2011 11:18 AM
Replacement for the K5 in the Spring? benjikan Pentax K-5 28 02-01-2011 08:31 AM
K-7 replacement/out of production? Vantage-Point Pentax DSLR Discussion 15 12-28-2010 08:01 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:11 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top