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08-14-2012, 08:17 AM   #76
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Seem Pentax is launching their new model every-4-6 months. I believe the speed jhave increase with Ricoh

Q August 2011
K-01 February 2012
K-30 May 2012
K-? August ?

08-14-2012, 08:28 AM   #77
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Exciting times! Hopefully a new 16-50 mk 2will be announced as well.
08-14-2012, 08:33 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by fast50 Quote
Also not true. An entry level 2012 Ford Mondeo has way more features than a 1990 Ford Mondeo. Features always trickle down the model range, so you have to compare features with equivalent models from the competition.
You're talking about a 12 year gap on a model year you can no longer buy new. That is not reasonable.

Base on current product line.
08-14-2012, 08:46 AM - 1 Like   #79
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Camera companies are weird, period.

- They keep things secret - when there is no secret. You know a new camera comes out, and if you graph the last 10 year period, the spikes, despite 1, 1.5 or 2 year differences, will be pretty evened out. its like...mom keeping secret of when dinner time is.
- They keep specs secret - when there is no secret. We know all the specs a camera can have so far (with few innovations here and there), and we are just looking for what they put in the pot today. Is it a combo of 16MP with 50k ISO, or is it a combo of 12MP with 100k ISO? Its like knowing that the fridge contains chicken and broccoli and shrimp, and mom keeps secret of which ones go in the pot for dinner.
- They announce the new camera a month before - as if announcing it 3 months or 4 months before will somehow be detrimental. Its totally backward from every aspect of marketing we know - whereas other companies announce their intended product, hype it, advertise it, months before it arrives, gets pre-orders, etc.
Why do they do this?
- Current customers werent going to switch companies just because they announced it early. (shucks...mom is cooking today - I am going to eat out? We know mom's cooking's the best.)
- Current customers COULD switch companies just because they announced it too late. (I know dinner is coming. But i am too hungry , and mom wont tell me if its going to be at 6pm or 12am. I can't wait anymore, so I am going to eat out).
- Prospective customers are someone else's current customers. They NEED to be hyped up about the competition - especially because the other companies are tight lipped too, so maybe knowing whats coming will allow them to decide to eat out. At Pentax's.
- In the case of Nikon D800, 1month or so was NOT sufficient, and a lot of current customers were upset of the wait, and a lot of prospective customers went and bought something else, and the general feeling in the community was that they suck as a company, as they kept EVERYONE in the dark as to who is getting how many cameras when. People were pointing fingers and wondering why this guy or that guy got theirs first when they rightfully pre-ordered earlier, etc.

What - are they afraid that canon will copy the exact same specs they are releasing if they hype the product? Are they assuming that a few months is all it takes to make a new body, and thats why they are keeping it tight-lipped? Well if that is true, then let me demonstrate that the solution they take doesnt work.

- Pentax: We are going to release a new camera, 24MP, ISO 100,000, weather proof, with new SAFOX IX plus plus improved AF, and weather resistant body in October...but lets wait till end of august to announce it, so that the competition doesnt do the same thing.

Come end of August:
- Pentax: Hi guys! we have a new camera for you by October. Here is the specs.
- Pentax community : Great! We are buying it!
- Non pentax community : Wow. That looks pretty cool. I am with CaSoFuKon , and I am switching to pentax in October because they have a line that no one else has!

End of September:
-CaSoFuKon : Hey guys. We are releasing a new camera in December/January/February, its going to be 24MP, ISO 100,000, weather proof, with our brand of 51 points of AF and latest in manual video recording.
- Pentax community : Heck. Ours will still be better.
- Non pentax community : Oh. wait, if I wait a little more, my current company will release a better camera. I wont be switching to Pentax after all! (See the power of hyping?)

In reality, if a bigger camera company decides they want to deliver ISO 100k, with 50 AF points, WR body, 20FPS, manual video recording, 300k shutter life, and a full line of pro lenses, we know they can. The technology is there. They are just mix and matching stuff these days, and reposition the camera in the consumer, prosumer, pro line ups.

Weird companies. And we are weird too, for playing their game.


Now - If i were a prospective customer - looking at Pentax's line up, I am going to say i have NO confidence in the company whatsoever until I see the new product. Unlike a long timer, how would I know a new camera is coming up for sure? How would I know that it is not completely going to go away the way of the dodo - err- camaro did in 2000 or something? All i know is, here is a company with 2 cameras.

Honestly, if i was advising someone to buy a camera today - I'll tell them to buy a canon t3i. Not because its a better camera. But because its perceived by beginners as a better camera. 18MP? Brand name? Cheaper? holy smokes. I can borrow lenses from everyone I know? It must be better than 16MP camera, with a brand name no one knows, right?. I'll advise them to get a canikon, because if they get crappy shots with a canikon, they'd perceive the problem as theirs - as opposed to if they had gotten a crappy shot with any other brand - they'd be told by canikon reps and fans that the problem is with their camera. That way, I keep my hands clean.

Pentax has to be more aggressive in the market place.

Ps: I coined CaSoFuKon Revere me

08-14-2012, 09:00 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Exactly! They must be proud of the K-5 and be pretty confident that they have something even better coming. I don't understand their policy of discontinuing before release of the next model, though. I hope the K-5 gets its successor a little faster than the K-r did (to the extent that the K-r has a successor yet - I actually think it will have two successors, the K-30 and something simpler that is more geared towards newbies than the K-r ever was).
Previously I would've said ain't gonna happen - Pentax has always been a 2-body camera maker. But, since Ricoh purchased the brand, I could see them dedicating a new assembly line to another body (they have the K-01 in production, and that is K-mount/aps-c, so technically with it, the K-30 and K-5 replacement they already have 3 bodies in production). so, why not a 4th?
08-14-2012, 09:04 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by D4rknezz Quote
Honestly, if i was advising someone to buy a camera today - I'll tell them to buy a canon t3i. Not because its a better camera. But because its perceived by beginners as a better camera. 18MP? Brand name? Cheaper? holy smokes. I can borrow lenses from everyone I know?

Pentax has to be more aggressive in the market place.
How many kit lenses can one man borrow?! Seriously, you might have 20 friends with a Canon, but I guarantee you 19 of them will have an 18-55mm POS attached.

Also, I'd argue the K-30 is a camera that is being more aggressive in the marketplace. Once the K-5 replacement hits stores and the K-30 drops to around $700, you'd have a hard time arguing against it.
08-14-2012, 09:14 AM   #82
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I'd love to see a K-5 Super. Basically the same thing with an upgraded sensor (24 MP?), upgraded AF, and a swivel screen. I'd buy one.
08-14-2012, 09:27 AM   #83
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QuoteQuote:
- They announce the new camera a month before - as if announcing it 3 months or 4 months before will somehow be detrimental. Its totally backward from every aspect of marketing we know
Osborne effect maybe??

08-14-2012, 09:45 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
I could not disagree with you more. If the K30 winds up being the best crop camera in Pentax's line up then they will be losing a customer. Period.

The K30 is not a replacement for the K-5.
I'm not saying that.

I'm only saying that the K30 and K5 are in eachother waters, they are close in price and features so a customer will either go for the K5 or K30, what is good about that?
08-14-2012, 09:51 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
How many kit lenses can one man borrow?! Seriously, you might have 20 friends with a Canon, but I guarantee you 19 of them will have an 18-55mm POS attached.

Also, I'd argue the K-30 is a camera that is being more aggressive in the marketplace. Once the K-5 replacement hits stores and the K-30 drops to around $700, you'd have a hard time arguing against it.
Hahaha. This is true.
But still...20 friends who tells you to buy a canon and tells you they can help you with it if you dont know how to use it....(sure, only 1 actually can, still).
Thats a lot of pressure right there!

I agree with you, you'd have a hard time having an intelligent argument against K-30 in any scenario , right now. But most of my arguments with consumers are typically centered around - this is 18MP...this one is 24MP. Look! Bigger number.

I am all for Pentax. i wish their Management and Marketing strategy is tighter.


hopey: Car manufacturer's have evaded this for years. Get last year's camaro model, which is similar but just a little different - and get a saving of 2000 dollar. (wait for christmas for a canon t3i kit with lens, bag, memory card, tripod, etc, for 700 bucks!). OR, pre - order the newest camaro, get an extra 12hp, same look different year, and pay full price, and wait for 4 months of delivery.

I mean, i buy that argument - but i think it could be handled with correct pricing and great timing in discontinuing old products.

Going back to all of us assuming Pentax is an ongoing concern and will be announcing something in a month or two, during this 2 months, a new comer to pentax will look at the company with 1 dslr and may not assume an ongoing concern. They assume the company is going down - and not invest.
08-14-2012, 09:55 AM   #86
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In addition, having a clear different price point will help. Take for example CaNikon. When price of models are 600, 1400, 2500, 5000, 7000, when an announcement is made to upgrade one of the line, the old stock wont drop in price so much that it is now encroaching the territory of a different line.

In Pentax world, if K5 had been 2000 and K30 had been 800, if K3 is announced, K5 would now be a comfortable 1600. This is why they can still sell 5D Mark 2. But - because K5 is now 1100, a price drop will make it too close to K30, and they are going to start cannibalizing each other.

All just demonstrates poor planning.
08-14-2012, 10:12 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
Pentax (Ricoh) needs to use its brains. They have the formula for an excellent camera with the K-5. Go with it. Build off that.
So far (with the exception of the Q, but I think that was completely under Hoya) that is exactly what they have done with the K-01 and K-30. The internal technology of both models is nearly the same as the K-5. However, I do believe that they have squeezed that lemon dry. The K-5 successor should have a different sensor, AF module and processor to up the ante IMHO.
08-14-2012, 10:14 AM - 1 Like   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
Photokina is in a month or so.
Launching at photokina is for suckers. The announcement should be made before Photokina so the launch is not overshadowed.
08-14-2012, 10:15 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The K-30 looks like it was designed by Casio and should have G-Shock stamped on it, but it it is 10x better than the Fisher-Price look-alike K-01.
Agree on all points.
08-14-2012, 10:18 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Launching at photokina is for suckers. The announcement should be made before Photokina so the launch is not overshadowed.
Yes, Pentax needs to announce 2 weeks prior and have actual product on display at the show. I don't think Pentax has the clout to announce at the show and not get drowned out by the bigger players.
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