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08-20-2012, 10:34 PM   #1
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K-5 Successor Updates

Here are quotes from the other forum in Japan posted by an anonymous who is naming himself a sales rep of Pentax.
Even though he has never leaked anything clear but only abstract info, it’s been always turned out true once new models were launched in the past.

1a. Miniaturization of interconnection process
1b. Larger microlens for the vaster area available for light capture.
2. They took long time to tweak a newly-designed 16MP imager without LPF
3. They spent a lot of time to tweak SAFOX X

<personal thought>
1a. Miniaturization of interconnection process => a new PRIME engine with smaller nanometer processing (?)
(we can expect much more FPS up to ???)
1b. I don't think it indicates FF, rather, it indicates an improved APS-C censor with larger microlense.
(we can expect even better high-ISO capability than K-5)
2. It's easy to expect it will have even sharper IQ than K-30 & K-1.
3. Hoping remarkable improvement with AF-C...

08-20-2012, 11:01 PM   #2
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1a. Miniaturization of interconnection process
1b. Larger microlens for the vaster area available for light capture.
2. They took long time to tweak a newly-designed 16MP imager without LPF
3. They spent a lot of time to tweak SAFOX X

1a Changed the sensor wires so they don't cover the sensor as much

1b Larger microlens(area is larger due to no wires covering sensor)

2 they tweaked the sensor, it doesnt have live preview function(live view)

3 autofocus is better
08-20-2012, 11:23 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Exo Quote
1a. Miniaturization of interconnection process
2 they tweaked the sensor, it doesnt have live preview function(live view)
LPF = Low Pass Filter, this is a filter in front of the sensor which helps to avoid moire artifacts, but which also makes the picture somewhat fuzzy (not sharp at pixel level without some unsharp masking). No LPF means much sharper images at pixel level at the risk of moire in some circumstances.

My, I'd love a K-5 without LPF!

Last edited by Asahiflex; 08-20-2012 at 11:39 PM.
08-20-2012, 11:24 PM   #4
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It means that Pentax will show APS-C with 16 MP and FF with 24 MP.

08-20-2012, 11:50 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by leonsroar Quote
1a. Miniaturization of interconnection process
1b. Larger microlens for the vaster area available for light capture.
2. They took long time to tweak a newly-designed 16MP imager without LPF
3. They spent a lot of time to tweak SAFOX X
1a/b:
More light per pixel (better high-ISO/better DR?)

2:
"newly-designed 16MP imager" -> not the 16MP Sony sensor they used in the K-5/K-30/K-01
"without LPF" -> no AA-Filter, but even with moiré being less of an issue at 36MP Nikon still made two versions of the D800, so why does Pentax dare to go without one at 16MP?

I can only make sense of that thusly: They're using the 16.3MP "X-Trans" CMOS sensor that's used in the Fuji X-Pro1.
It uses a 6x6 non-Bayer pattern and doesn't need an AA-filter but it needs more photocites per effective MP,
the larger microlenses could make up for the smaller photocites to preserve DR and high-ISO performance.



Take a look at how the X-Pro1 performs at high ISOs


Maybe Pentax looking to compete with the X-Pro1, they certainly have the lenses (limiteds!) to compete, the limited-zoom on the roadmap would fit that strategy too.

3:
"Tweaked" for what? They already "tweaked" the SAFOX IX for the K-30, so what's different?
A larger number of AF-Sensors would surely require some tweaking and warrant a new numeral (X).



I wonder how a fullframe "X-Trans" CMOS sensor would perform given what the APS-C one in the X-Pro1 can do...

Last edited by Boris_Akunin; 08-21-2012 at 12:23 AM.
08-20-2012, 11:52 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
It means that Pentax will show APS-C with 16 MP and FF APS-C with 24 MP.
Fixed it for you .
08-21-2012, 12:48 AM - 1 Like   #7
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So its a new SAFOX again? The k30 uses a tweaked SAFOX IX doesn't it? Hopefully its worthy of a generation leap, though I think sdm speed is another problem that won't benefit enough from the new SAFOX
08-21-2012, 02:15 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boris_Akunin Quote
"without LPF" -> no AA-Filter, but even with moiré being less of an issue at 36MP Nikon still made two versions of the D800, so why does Pentax dare to go without one at 16MP?
Remember that the pixel size on an APS-C 16MP sensor is almost identical to that on a 36MP FF sensor, so all other things being the same, what would be the difference?

08-21-2012, 02:24 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boris_Akunin Quote
"Tweaked" for what? They already "tweaked" the SAFOX IX for the K-30, so what's different?
A larger number of AF-Sensors would surely require some tweaking and warrant a new numeral (X).
Not if we look back:
*ist-D, Safox VIII : 11 AF points
*ist-DL Safox VIII : 3 AF points
*ist-DL2 Safox VIII : 5 AF points

Reference: Pentax *ist-Series Digital Bodies
08-21-2012, 03:57 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
Remember that the pixel size on an APS-C 16MP sensor is almost identical to that on a 36MP FF sensor, so all other things being the same, what would be the difference?
Price and size. So the same resolution as the D800 without AA filter, but in a smaller format and price.

Last edited by Clavius; 08-21-2012 at 04:18 AM.
08-21-2012, 04:02 AM   #11
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This sounds like the K5n that should be announced in a few weeks. I also guess it will have a tilt screen like in the upcoming X5. It should be a nice evolutionary upgrade to the K5.

The aps-c 24mp pro-level camera is coming at CP+ at the end on January. It will be nice to have more than a two tier camera line-up.

Dave
08-21-2012, 05:53 AM   #12
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That sounds as a good idea, a 16mp K-5 follower that is better at a lot of things!
08-21-2012, 07:07 AM   #13
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You know what would be a good thing to have in a pro pentax dslr (aps or ff): 16 bit color depth files. Imagine how wide would be the DR on those images. With the previous expertise on the k5's shadow DR, a plus on the other side would be delightetfull....

Am i being silly ?
08-21-2012, 07:22 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by sungibr Quote
You know what would be a good thing to have in a pro pentax dslr (aps or ff): 16 bit color depth files. Imagine how wide would be the DR on those images. With the previous expertise on the k5's shadow DR, a plus on the other side would be delightetfull....

Am i being silly ?
Wouldn't the file size be huge?
08-21-2012, 07:26 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
Remember that the pixel size on an APS-C 16MP sensor is almost identical to that on a 36MP FF sensor, so all other things being the same, what would be the difference?
The difference would be that, given the same field of view, the 36MP FF-sensor uses more pixels to resolve the same amount of detail.

For example, say you take the same shot at 50mm on the D800 and at 32,9mm on the K-5 and there is fine structure in the frame that covers 10% of the hight and 10% of the width of the frame.
The resolution of that crop will be 736x491 pixels on the D800 and 493x326 pixels on the K-5, now moiré patterns only form if the size of the parallel lines of the fine structure in the frame and the parallel lines that are formed by the rows and columns of pixels on the sensor are of similar size. So the fine structure has to be smaller, to produce moiré patterns on the D800s sensor than it would have to be to form such patterns on the K-5s sensor, therefore moiré is less of a problem for the D800 than it is for the K-5.

There are non-bayer patterns like the one the X-Pro1 uses, that produce less moiré, but they usualy need more photocites to produce the same MP-count.
The bayer pattern is more efficient but it needs an AA-filter, at least at lower MP-counts.

Keeping the sensor size (APS-C), the individual photocites have to be smaller (and thus capture less light) but larger microlenses in front of those photocites can make up part of that difference.


I'm thinking that if - even with a 36MP sensor - Nikon decided to make two versions with and without AA-filter, it's unlikely that pentax would use a 16MP bayer-sensor without an AA-filter.
But if they're using a new 16MP sensor anyway - and not the one ued in the K-5/30/01 - then it might be the same 16MP non-bayer sensor the X-Pro1 uses, which just happens to work without an AA-Filter.

Given how the Fuji X-Pro1 performs compared to the K-5 it would be a step up in IQ and certainly better than the 24MP Sony sensor used in the Nikon D3200.


-Jan
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