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02-04-2008, 12:22 AM   #61
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But 31megapixel in a FF sensor means the same problems of DR and noise we experience now in 10MP APS-C sensors. It's exactly when FF reaches that point, that MF sensor will really make a difference, and will be "needed" by pros...

02-05-2008, 04:50 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
I'd rather Pentax go 645, actually, if only to one-up full frame. I think that a pro APS-C K1D (action shooters' camera) running alongside with a 645D (for ultimate IQ) would make serious waves in the pro market and show Pentax's ability to better cater to different shooting needs.

This would really be great. Medium Format was the Professional market for Pentax, and they built a name and awareness in this market.
Specializing and staying in APS-C would be good IMO. Two clear product camera lines. For ultimate IQ, then Medium Format, (this is twice the sensor size of Full Frame). For fast performance and convenience; a top-flight APS camera to carry deep into the jungle on assignment.

I never used Medium Format, so know little about the prizing, but I could imagine a 645D would land around 8.000 $ Euros. As it might be a slight crop from the older film version 645N; some new wide-angle lenses, zooms, and flash options would need to be added. Thinking about the pace of which the older A, F, FA series lenses rose in price; the 645 and 67 lenses would quickly be reabsorbed into use.

A K30 camera, would be mid segment in 135 format; and would do the trick for most of us. A Pro built K5D would be around 2.000 $ / Euros. To supplement; the Pro service that Pentax have started in US, would also be obtainable in Europe, and Asia/Australia. Though several already have individual packages, with independent stores.
02-05-2008, 07:03 PM   #63
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Hi Jonson PL

Your touching comment really made me chuckle out loud when you said:

QuoteQuote:
This would really be great
No doubt lots of things 'would be really great' such as world peace, the abolition of poverty & starvation and decent health care for everyone on the planet etc......
I have a serious business proposition for you, seeing as you are so genuinely keen to bring a digital 645MF Pentax SLR into existence. Imagine for one moment that the board of Hoya have just appointed YOU as MD of Pentax, but unanimously insist that before the new camera can go into production, you must personally be prepared to mortgage everything you own in order to raise the necessary finance for the project to proceed ! Remember it's now YOUR money that's on the line, so the first two things you had better establish before going any further are precisely what the projected demand for your ground-breaking new camera is likely to be and secondly the likely retail price that you expect to charge the market in order for you and Hoya to make a suitable return on your considerable investment.
Well my friend, I'm afraid you will shortly find yourself penniless before the bankruptcy courts, because the sums simply didn't add up as intended and as a direct consequence, unfortunately Pentax and yourself have just gone spectacularly bust.
Now THAT scenario would 'not be really great' at all, would it......LOL !

Best regards
Richard

Last edited by Confused; 02-06-2008 at 12:51 PM.
02-06-2008, 01:35 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Confused Quote
Hi Jonson PL

No doubt lots of things 'would be really great' such as world peace, the abolition of poverty & starvation and decent health care for everyone on the planet etc......
I have a serious business proposition for you, seeing as you are so genuinely keen to bring a digital 645MF Pentax SLR into existence. Imagine for one moment that the board of Hoya have just appointed YOU as MD of Pentax, but unanimously insist that before the new camera can go into production, you must personally be prepared to mortgage everything you own in order to raise the necessary finance for the project to proceed ! Remember it's now YOUR money that's on the line, so the first two things you had better establish before going any further are precisely what the projected demand for your ground-breaking new camera is likely to be and secondly the likely retail price that you expect to charge the market in order for you and Hoya to make a suitable return on your considerable investment.
Well my friend, I'm afraid you will shortly find yourself penniless before the bankruptcy courts, because the sums simply didn't add up as intended and as a direct consequence, unfortunately Pentax and yourself have now gone spectacularly bust.
Now THAT scenario would 'not be really great' at all, would it !

Best regards
Richard


As I’m not, and never were, a medium format shooter; I would not be the person to ask.
645D is a niche for Pro’s. I think Hoya feels that DSLR is an expanding market, with more general appeal. As Pentax is not a big company, and at the moment doesn’t meet the needs of the public, for glass, they need to focus and get the job done here first.
I do trust Pentax to make the right choices in this regard. They decided to hold the original MZ-D camera with Kodak sensor, which made Contax sink out of the market. And other times, Pentax has been the comeback kid; hitting the mark with good products.
The 645D was ready, but distribution wasn’t up, so Hoya put it on hold. I think this was the right choice. Pentax need the product line to be solid; before moving into new territory.

As I’ve said, Medium Format is, and was, too expensive for me. So personally it doesn’t matter to me, if they bring it out. But there are a lot of people who still have old glass in the back of the closet.
Pentax designers and makers, are more like scientists; bringing out interesting products, and then gradually letting the public discover it. Hoya wants a more run-through plan, and that things are more considered. Not a bad idea. Maybe they’ll bring out FF within the next 4-5 years instead.
I’m a student, so this is all though-speculation; and I’m just waiting in interest to see what will happen. Luckily for me, I didn’t make the jump to digital until recently, so there is already plenty of glass to choose from, for me.
Since as a student, I have 100 Euros, and the rest is student loans, I doubt there would be much threat in this apposed proposition that I should be making the calls. Wouldn’t make much sense making me the head of anything. I would just grab the 645D prototype, and be out having fun shooting, forgetting to report back and just try and have a blast as I went along.
Life is a winding road, hopefully we use it to make some discoveries and try to get the most out of our time here. Speculations are a fun way to spent some time away from the books, and since I can’t afford LBA; I just have fun seeing what other people get, and planning what I could want myself later on.

What I really did, was place a tag in the thread, as this DOF calculator is great, and I haven’t seen that page before.


World peace would be nice too.

02-06-2008, 12:47 PM   #65
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Hi again Sune

Re your assumption that:

QuoteQuote:
I could imagine a 645D would land around 8.000 $ Euros.
For your information, Hasselblad's CF-39 digital back alone (not even a 60.0 x 45.0mm sensor, but only 49.0 x 36.7mm !!) currently retails between €28,000 - €30,000.00 excluding taxes !! Remember now, no body, no lens, JUST the digital back
..........so perhaps 8.000 $ Euros is being just a teensy bit optimistic, don't you !

Best regards
Richard

Last edited by Confused; 02-06-2008 at 12:52 PM.
02-06-2008, 05:06 PM   #66
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[QUOTE=*isteve;168444]
QuoteOriginally posted by Tbear Quote
"I don't understand this obsession with full-Sony are gambling, and so are Nikon. I think at least one of them will live to regret it terribly. I cant see Canon 1D users migrating to the D3 (2k more and those lenses!!) and I cant see Nikon D2X users upgrading to it either (2k more and bigger lenses). In fact I think its a fatuous, pointless tour de force that everyone will aspire to and few will own.

The D3 is already a huge success selling 10 000+ a month and they cannot meet demand. It is an amazingly high number for a camera at this price, never seen before.
02-06-2008, 05:08 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
I personally think that Pentax will adopt the FF format.

Ben


They have said as much in interviews. They see it as a natural path for them. I expect it in 2010.
02-06-2008, 10:52 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
They have said as much in interviews. They see it as a natural path for them. I expect it in 2010.
Read between the lines, It's 6:45 am in the morning that one wakes up in late September of this year. The daughters father shows his stance.


02-06-2008, 11:17 PM   #69
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WendB,

I gotta say, I love your cryptic messages hinting at great things to come.

So the 645 at Photokina you say?

Ok. I think I can handle 10 months of speculation. No really. I'm Ready...

Eric.
02-07-2008, 07:45 AM   #70
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[QUOTE=Pål Jensen;172398][QUOTE=*isteve;168444]

Originally Posted by Pål Jensen

Originally Posted by Tbear
"I don't understand this obsession with full-Sony are gambling, and so are Nikon. I think at least one of them will live to regret it terribly. I cant see Canon 1D users migrating to the D3 (2k more and those lenses!!) and I cant see Nikon D2X users upgrading to it either (2k more and bigger lenses). In fact I think its a fatuous, pointless tour de force that everyone will aspire to and few will own."


Note: This is not my quote. This is *isteve's quote. Please be careful how you edit people's quotes.
02-07-2008, 09:07 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
Ok I'm going to jump into the fray of speculation and conjecture.

After gazing into my crystal ball...I see...

..... I'm no sales and marketing guru, but the larger glass elements needed for full frame could be good for Hoya. No?

Eric
Not if you can't sell them in sufficient quantities to recover R&D and manufacturing costs!

Mike.
02-07-2008, 10:01 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
They have said as much in interviews. They see it as a natural path for them. I expect it in 2010.
Read those "interviews" again. Those are typical "non-comments" which really don't mean much, something people tend to say when they are not sure about the answer themselves. It was more of a "keep the options open" or "never rule it out" type of response. To be honest, probably even Pentax Japan or Hoya do not have a firm answer themselves, let alone Pentax Europe.

The only thing for sure is that there is no firm release plan for a FF camera in the immediate future. Beyond that, a lot of different factors would come into play, like the success or failure of K20D/K200D, the success or failure of A900, the willingness of Samsung to tread into the FF water, and so on. I personally don't think so as I believe A900 will not sell in the numbers Sony wants and Samsung has no interest in FF at this point.
02-07-2008, 12:11 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
Ok I'm going to jump into the fray of speculation and conjecture.

After gazing into my crystal ball...I see...

Alloy body (magnesium? sp?).....
Eric
I hope you're right. One of my K10D bodies has a tiny chip that fell out of the corner of the baseplate. It started as a barely visible crack. I doubt that it would happen on a metal body. Even my Olympus P&S cameras have magnesium alloy bodies.

I assume that Pentax went the plastic route in order to keep the cost down. Speaking personally, though, I would gladly have paid a bit more for a metal body.

Richard
02-07-2008, 10:08 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
WendB,

I gotta say, I love your cryptic messages hinting at great things to come.

So the 645 at Photokina you say?

Ok. I think I can handle 10 months of speculation. No really. I'm Ready...

Eric.
If one reads the lines correctly. Pentax/Hoya has quite an investment in the between and above the lines.
When the real reviews arrive on the 20D and they will be outstanding. Why in right technological mind would we not wake up at 6:45am in the morning with a "F"resh "F"ired healthy breakfast with all of the 38 nutrients in the well balanced diet to help our bodies professionally get through the day perfectly?

Last edited by WendyB; 02-07-2008 at 10:20 PM.
02-07-2008, 11:12 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by WendyB Quote
If one reads the lines correctly. Pentax/Hoya has quite an investment in the between and above the lines.
When the real reviews arrive on the 20D and they will be outstanding. Why in right technological mind would we not wake up at 6:45am in the morning with a "F"resh "F"ired healthy breakfast with all of the 38 nutrients in the well balanced diet to help our bodies professionally get through the day perfectly?
LOL just lol
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