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09-06-2012, 09:27 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
thank you HOYA once again grrrr
I, for one, have stopped buying any Hoya products.

And reintroducing old lens models shouldn't be much of a problem. A build-to-order 600/4 would be neat.

09-06-2012, 09:33 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
I, for one, have stopped buying any Hoya products.

And reintroducing old lens models shouldn't be much of a problem. A build-to-order 600/4 would be neat.
Only issue I have with build to order is it increases cost hugely. look at the build to order lens sony did. about 40% more than the canikon lenses
09-06-2012, 09:52 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
Especially as Pentax has made a number in the past - including a unique (?) one that could AF with manual focus lenses.
Nikon did such an adapter back in its time but quickly fell off the radar AFAIK.
09-06-2012, 11:43 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Only issue I have with build to order is it increases cost hugely. look at the build to order lens sony did. about 40% more than the canikon lenses
The FA* 600/4 was almost a build to order lens when it was still in production. Occasionally, BH would have one in stock or a Japanese store would but most of the time it was an order item.

09-06-2012, 11:13 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Indeed again. A lot of the lens depth they once had should have been maintained, even at low build rates, and progressively updated, rather than just obsoleted.
Hi

I have the distinct feeling Hoya had no inkling of the worth and suitability a lot of the old gear had with DSLR cams.

I was lucky enough to pick up very cheaply a Pentax 1.7 TC from Yodobashi Tokyo some years ago , I guess before everybody realised how desirable they were. It was packaged in a 70's style box and looked for all the world like old original stock. And I guess it went cheaply because they wanted to liquidate old stock.

My guess is they (whoever it was) dismantled all the old manufacturing plant that made some of this gear before the move to Vietnam. Now they realise how valuable some of this gear is, they have problems resurrecting the manufacturing plant. (Just my guess.)

About 18 months ago with the help of my personal Vietnamese tour guide I actually visited the PENTAX factory at the Sai Dong Industrial Park located in the Gia Lam district near Hanoi. It is a big modern factory with land available for expansion. Even just looking at it from the outside one gets the impression there is a lot of capacity there.

Greetings
09-06-2012, 11:41 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Only issue I have with build to order is it increases cost hugely. look at the build to order lens sony did. about 40% more than the canikon lenses
And it's a terrible lens.... No, long Pentax doesn't have to be as expensive -- even built to order.
Funny that RiceBlah thinks the 560/5.6 will be built to order. The guy has some legitimate sources, but that bit isn't.
09-07-2012, 12:01 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Only issue I have with build to order is it increases cost hugely. look at the build to order lens sony did. about 40% more than the canikon lenses
I agree, but remember that Pentax users seem to not put their money where the mouth is. Many talk about wanting this or that, but when they actually come out they complain about how expensive they are. Then they want to "hold off" until the prices come down, only to then complain about how outdated the line up is and so on. Managing inventory to cater to the crowd as such really is insane, and for an item like this lense they really have no choice but to build to order, I think.
09-07-2012, 12:47 AM   #23
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two versions?

Could there be two versions of this lens?
  • 560mm/f5.6 regular telelens
  • 560mm/f5.6 astro telelens at special order

Just a thought since I think the mentioned lens looks to expensive and the astrotracker not for everyones use.

09-07-2012, 04:01 AM   #24
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Exactly

QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
What is the market for this lens, a birder who has ~$4k to spend on a lens, but not enough to use Canon or Nikon with their better AF and bigger selection of other long lenses?
There's a big gap between a $4K and $8K lens (about $4K back of the envelope) and there are a lot of hobbyist birders who might stretch to buy the former but will only dream about the latter. And then there are Pentaxians who want long glass in their kit but don't want to have to buy another body/brand to get what they need. If pentax can make a long lens of high quality at a reasonable price and pair it with a new body with much improved continuous autofocus they will have a hit in my opinion.
09-07-2012, 04:08 AM   #25
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So who is the market? It's probably in this order:
- sports shooters
- nature/wildlife/birding
- astronomy (maybe)
- affluent gear heads
- security
09-07-2012, 05:21 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I agree, but remember that Pentax users seem to not put their money where the mouth is. Many talk about wanting this or that, but when they actually come out they complain about how expensive they are. Then they want to "hold off" until the prices come down, only to then complain about how outdated the line up is and so on. Managing inventory to cater to the crowd as such really is insane, and for an item like this lense they really have no choice but to build to order, I think.
There are plenty that do though. That said, the $8500 to plunk down for a FA* 600/4 was a bridge too far even for those of us who would put it to good use.
09-07-2012, 05:25 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
So who is the market? It's probably in this order:
- sports shooters
- nature/wildlife/birding
- astronomy (maybe)
- affluent gear heads
- security

I don't think too many sports shooters would be spending over $3000 for this lens unless it has a much better AF system to go along with a new body with a much better AF system that would be at least comparable to Canon. I'm hoping that's the case!
09-07-2012, 05:25 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
There are plenty that do though. That said, the $8500 to plunk down for a FA* 600/4 was a bridge too far even for those of us who would put it to good use.
Are you kidding? It's a lot cheaper than what you pay for other systems!
09-07-2012, 05:43 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I agree, but remember that Pentax users seem to not put their money where the mouth is. Many talk about wanting this or that, but when they actually come out they complain about how expensive they are. Then they want to "hold off" until the prices come down, only to then complain about how outdated the line up is and so on. Managing inventory to cater to the crowd as such really is insane, and for an item like this lense they really have no choice but to build to order, I think.
I think that lots of people complaining here about the lack of FF, the problem about focusing, threatening to jump ship to buy a $ 3k DSLR, think the grass is greener at the competitor, but so far, my experience with comparable model of the Pentax line, told me, it's not. It's just as green, but with a different taste.

I have the pulled the trigger about the DA*55 and, ok, i paid it second hand for around 400€ (520$), it is sooo damn expensive for a student with no regular job, but whoooa ! this is really worth it.
If the 16-50 and the 50-135 have the same guts, well it's a no brainer, and the 70-200/2.8 of canon, or the 24-70, are not really much better !

Pentax has some real asset, but they need to tell people how valuable all this is. They need to tell people, that spending $ 1k on a 50-135 is worth it.

Yeah, managing a brand like Pentax today is maybe a hell, specially when you have to tell people to be patient enought to let the "new" Pentax show them what they have created.

And a good way to keep price low for such a lens, and make people realize that Pentax knows how to do very desirable lens at competitive price is doing a big batch of this lens, send it in many retailer, at least just to expose it near the Canikon Big guns, just to say "We are small, but Canikon is not the only one, out there, that can build such things!"

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
There are plenty that do though. That said, the $8500 to plunk down for a FA* 600/4 was a bridge too far even for those of us who would put it to good use.
Considering Amazon France have some 600/4 from Canon at the very sexy price of 10.500€, so around $ 13.300 we can say that $ 8,5k for the Pentax one, is really damn cheap !!

One more thing / thought : Pentax should sell it's 560/5.6 at less than 4.000€ ($ 5.100) to be under the pricing of the Sigma 500/4.5. They probably can if they decide to not do lots of benefits on it.

Last edited by aurele; 09-07-2012 at 05:51 AM.
09-07-2012, 08:16 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
to be under the pricing of the Sigma 500/4.5
Why?
That lens is:
- Sigma
- shorter
- old
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