Pentax K-5 II/s rumor update (w/images)...

ogl · 09-12-2012, 07:47 AM

If N and C won't offer any new APS-C cameras this year, Pentax's move with K-5II/s is not silly...

Alizarine · 09-12-2012, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by timcatn

There is the possibility that Pentax sees the K5-II as a dry run test for their new AF system. If it is well received then great. Put in the K3 and off we go. If not, they have the chance to correct it before putting the K3 on sale. Just my 2 cents.

What would a "dry run" of the AF system benefit Pentax...? Unless of course like the others said, just to buy time and release something for PK 2012

janneman · 09-12-2012, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by ogl

If N and C won't offer any new APS-C cameras this year, Pentax's move with K-5II/s is not silly...

They will release APS-C, but aimed at what level? That is the major question.

hangman43 · 09-12-2012, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by janneman

They will release APS-C, but aimed at what level? That is the major question.

I would say Nikon will release 3 APS-C
D5200
D7100
D400

Would not think Canon would be releasing a APS-C since they just release the major firmware update for the 7D and the T4i just came out they might announce something in between

janneman · 09-12-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by hangman43

Would not think Canon would be releasing a APS-C since they just release the major firmware update for the 7D and the T4i just came out they might announce something in between

70D, 60D is from 2010.
Not sure about D400, they might have abandoned that path, if only to keep the Dx00 series reserved for FF and avoid confusion.

ogl · 09-12-2012, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by hangman43

I would say Nikon will release 3 APS-C
D5200
D7100
D400

Would not think Canon would be releasing a APS-C since they just release the major firmware update for the 7D and the T4i just came out they might announce something in between

No any rumors...

Winder · 09-12-2012, 09:31 AM

With Nikon expected to release the D600 at $2,700 I think it does leave room for a D400 at the $1,700 price point.

2012 seems to be the year of the FF. Canon, Nikon, & Sony have all put multiple FF bodies on the market. 2013 will probably be the year for APS-C. I would expect replacements for the 7D, D300s, K-5, & A77 as well as an Olympus E-5 replacement.

cfraz · 09-12-2012, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by ogl

If N and C won't offer any new APS-C cameras this year, Pentax's move with K-5II/s is not silly...

I think the K5 II/s were rushed through development only after Pentax couldn't deliver a K3 per their original plans. They got the AF module working but couldn't finish the rest of the camera - ran out of money or sensor not good enough or not available from vendor or??

It just doesn't make sense to release your flagship camera with key features (Prime Engine, video, focus aids) that are a generation behind the K3, especially when it costs twice as much.
Unless your only other option is not to release a new flagship at all for another 6 months or year.

**Pål Jensen** · 09-12-2012, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by cfraz

I think the K5 II/s were rushed through development only after Pentax couldn't deliver a K3 per their original plans. .

I just think they want to expand their line-up. The K-5 is still arguably the best APS camera on the market; no need to discontinue it.

cfraz · 09-12-2012, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

I just think they want to expand their line-up. The K-5 is still arguably the best APS camera on the market; no need to discontinue it.

I agree no need to discontinue the K5. But I can't believe Pentax's product development plans from a year ago said "Let's release a mid range model in the spring and then six months later introduce a flagship model that is a generation behind the mid range model in several key features and 2X $." The new AF module was originally intended for a new body. Of course that's just my opinion which doesn't really matter to anyone but me, so I don't know why I'm writing this!

**7samurai** · 09-12-2012, 01:15 PM

I do find it strange that after 2 years, the K-5 refresh was smaller than expected. Maybe the K-5 is so ground breaking that Pentax had a hard time delivering another product just as good.

I suspect <something> new was built, but they can't deliver the <something> because they couldn't get the parts. When they found out, they switched gears to create a refreshed K-5 II/IIs.

I just don't see Hoya stopping product development for the last 2 years, thinking they will save money for the short term and dump the company on someone unsuspecting. I don't think Hoya would have done that since they would have been stuck with Pentax if they couldn't sell it. Besides, you would need a new product pipeline to show any potential new owners.

The otherside is they couldn't engineer the new body because they lost all the good engineers. The K-30 seems to imply that's not the situation since they were able to deliver that using the the Sony 16 MP sensor and the new Prime M processor, including focus peaking and new AF.

This leads me to believe this shift to the K-5 II/IIs was very recent and sudden. It was fast, so fast that they couldn't even use the new Prime M processor in the K-5 II/IIs, knowing they were leaving out the focus peaking and higher video. If anything, I would of believed the focus peaking would have made the feature list of the K-5 II/IIs.

I prefer to think it's supply issue. Maybe they were negotiating for the new sensor and they couldn't come to agreement. Could be just as simple as that.

glanglois · 09-12-2012, 04:11 PM

I rather think that Ricoh took a good look at what they bought and decided a rather dramatic change of direction was needed. It may have taken a few months to determine that (due diligence only goes so far).

Market/product management must get used to the state of the markets and develop lists of new requirements and associated timelines. ( Reading PF may not provide enough market intelligence

. )

With a change of direction, R&D staff must shift their efforts and resources must be diverted to new concepts, technologies, whatever. Perhaps new intellectual property agreements and new supplier agreements must be negotiated, at least in principle, before the detailed development begins. Those are needed to understand what the designers will have available to them.

If the Hoya plans had to be scrapped, the current situation may be understandable.

But I do wish, though, I could get another K-5, this one in crystal blue .....

Alizarine · 09-12-2012, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by 7samurai

This leads me to believe this shift to the K-5 II/IIs was very recent and sudden.

well... not that I know a lot, but as far as some sources we have in our local community say, yup it's recent. As like, early 2012. So the guess that the new body just can't be completed for revelation at Photokina makes a lot of sense.

However, there wasn't enough insider info getting out to let us get wind of what's going on inside the Pentax warehouses, lol. Maybe they hire ninjas to guard the place. It's so... info-tight.

So why is Ned Bunnell resigning?

**7samurai** · 09-12-2012, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by glanglois

But I do wish, though, I could get another K-5, this one in crystal blue .....

I really want one in that color too.

I hope we get samples soon of the 's' version so we can see what magic the Pentax engineers did.
(still wish they added focus peaking and better video)

Pentikonian · 09-12-2012, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by 7samurai

I really want one in that color too.

I hope we get samples soon of the 's' version so we can see what magic the Pentax engineers did.
(still wish they added focus peaking and better video)

Can't wait. Will be nice to see what they did with the II as well.

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09-12-2012, 07:47 AM	#526
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	If N and C won't offer any new APS-C cameras this year, Pentax's move with K-5II/s is not silly...

09-12-2012, 07:56 AM	#527
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Originally posted by timcatn There is the possibility that Pentax sees the K5-II as a dry run test for their new AF system. If it is well received then great. Put in the K3 and off we go. If not, they have the chance to correct it before putting the K3 on sale. Just my 2 cents. What would a "dry run" of the AF system benefit Pentax...? Unless of course like the others said, just to buy time and release something for PK 2012

09-12-2012, 08:07 AM	#528
janneman Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 908	Originally posted by ogl If N and C won't offer any new APS-C cameras this year, Pentax's move with K-5II/s is not silly... They will release APS-C, but aimed at what level? That is the major question.

09-12-2012, 08:32 AM	#529
hangman43 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Hueytown, Alabama Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,508	Originally posted by janneman They will release APS-C, but aimed at what level? That is the major question. I would say Nikon will release 3 APS-C D5200 D7100 D400 Would not think Canon would be releasing a APS-C since they just release the major firmware update for the 7D and the T4i just came out they might announce something in between

09-12-2012, 08:57 AM	#530
janneman Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 908	Originally posted by hangman43 Would not think Canon would be releasing a APS-C since they just release the major firmware update for the 7D and the T4i just came out they might announce something in between 70D, 60D is from 2010. Not sure about D400, they might have abandoned that path, if only to keep the Dx00 series reserved for FF and avoid confusion.

09-12-2012, 09:16 AM	#531
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by hangman43 I would say Nikon will release 3 APS-C D5200 D7100 D400 Would not think Canon would be releasing a APS-C since they just release the major firmware update for the 7D and the T4i just came out they might announce something in between No any rumors...

09-12-2012, 09:31 AM	#532
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	With Nikon expected to release the D600 at $2,700 I think it does leave room for a D400 at the $1,700 price point. 2012 seems to be the year of the FF. Canon, Nikon, & Sony have all put multiple FF bodies on the market. 2013 will probably be the year for APS-C. I would expect replacements for the 7D, D300s, K-5, & A77 as well as an Olympus E-5 replacement.

09-12-2012, 10:56 AM	#533
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by ogl If N and C won't offer any new APS-C cameras this year, Pentax's move with K-5II/s is not silly... I think the K5 II/s were rushed through development only after Pentax couldn't deliver a K3 per their original plans. They got the AF module working but couldn't finish the rest of the camera - ran out of money or sensor not good enough or not available from vendor or?? It just doesn't make sense to release your flagship camera with key features (Prime Engine, video, focus aids) that are a generation behind the K3, especially when it costs twice as much. Unless your only other option is not to release a new flagship at all for another 6 months or year.

09-12-2012, 10:58 AM	#534
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by cfraz I think the K5 II/s were rushed through development only after Pentax couldn't deliver a K3 per their original plans. . I just think they want to expand their line-up. The K-5 is still arguably the best APS camera on the market; no need to discontinue it.

09-12-2012, 11:52 AM	#535
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by Pål Jensen I just think they want to expand their line-up. The K-5 is still arguably the best APS camera on the market; no need to discontinue it. I agree no need to discontinue the K5. But I can't believe Pentax's product development plans from a year ago said "Let's release a mid range model in the spring and then six months later introduce a flagship model that is a generation behind the mid range model in several key features and 2X $." The new AF module was originally intended for a new body. Of course that's just my opinion which doesn't really matter to anyone but me, so I don't know why I'm writing this!

09-12-2012, 01:15 PM	#536
7samurai Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 474	I do find it strange that after 2 years, the K-5 refresh was smaller than expected. Maybe the K-5 is so ground breaking that Pentax had a hard time delivering another product just as good. I suspect <something> new was built, but they can't deliver the <something> because they couldn't get the parts. When they found out, they switched gears to create a refreshed K-5 II/IIs. I just don't see Hoya stopping product development for the last 2 years, thinking they will save money for the short term and dump the company on someone unsuspecting. I don't think Hoya would have done that since they would have been stuck with Pentax if they couldn't sell it. Besides, you would need a new product pipeline to show any potential new owners. The otherside is they couldn't engineer the new body because they lost all the good engineers. The K-30 seems to imply that's not the situation since they were able to deliver that using the the Sony 16 MP sensor and the new Prime M processor, including focus peaking and new AF. This leads me to believe this shift to the K-5 II/IIs was very recent and sudden. It was fast, so fast that they couldn't even use the new Prime M processor in the K-5 II/IIs, knowing they were leaving out the focus peaking and higher video. If anything, I would of believed the focus peaking would have made the feature list of the K-5 II/IIs. I prefer to think it's supply issue. Maybe they were negotiating for the new sensor and they couldn't come to agreement. Could be just as simple as that.

09-12-2012, 04:11 PM	#537
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	I rather think that Ricoh took a good look at what they bought and decided a rather dramatic change of direction was needed. It may have taken a few months to determine that (due diligence only goes so far). Market/product management must get used to the state of the markets and develop lists of new requirements and associated timelines. ( Reading PF may not provide enough market intelligence . ) With a change of direction, R&D staff must shift their efforts and resources must be diverted to new concepts, technologies, whatever. Perhaps new intellectual property agreements and new supplier agreements must be negotiated, at least in principle, before the detailed development begins. Those are needed to understand what the designers will have available to them. If the Hoya plans had to be scrapped, the current situation may be understandable. But I do wish, though, I could get another K-5, this one in crystal blue .....

09-12-2012, 05:12 PM	#538
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Originally posted by 7samurai This leads me to believe this shift to the K-5 II/IIs was very recent and sudden. well... not that I know a lot, but as far as some sources we have in our local community say, yup it's recent. As like, early 2012. So the guess that the new body just can't be completed for revelation at Photokina makes a lot of sense. However, there wasn't enough insider info getting out to let us get wind of what's going on inside the Pentax warehouses, lol. Maybe they hire ninjas to guard the place. It's so... info-tight. So why is Ned Bunnell resigning?

09-12-2012, 06:26 PM	#539
7samurai Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 474	Originally posted by glanglois But I do wish, though, I could get another K-5, this one in crystal blue ..... I really want one in that color too. I hope we get samples soon of the 's' version so we can see what magic the Pentax engineers did. (still wish they added focus peaking and better video)

09-12-2012, 06:53 PM	#540
Pentikonian Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 780	Originally posted by 7samurai I really want one in that color too. I hope we get samples soon of the 's' version so we can see what magic the Pentax engineers did. (still wish they added focus peaking and better video) Can't wait. Will be nice to see what they did with the II as well.