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12-10-2012, 04:42 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mojtala Quote
This alone means Pentax does not have any plan for FF! FF wishers, do not waste your time her.
The DA560mm is not a ricoh development. Yet NO lens or camera has been presented, where the development has been startet with Ricoh managment.

First hardware under Ricoh will be there in spring. Maybe this will tell us more

As long the DA560 has not been tested on Film, I would say chances are high it works in FF, despite Pentax saying differently.
Many DAs work on film and especially the long tele lenses.

12-10-2012, 05:01 AM   #92
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I don't remember Pentax saying it will not work on FF - did they?

Well said about Pentax Hoya vs. Pentax Ricoh products. Indeed, the 560mm was even on an old, scrapped Pentax Hoya roadmap (but Hoya most likely found it too much of an investment)
12-10-2012, 05:12 AM   #93
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If interested in looking at what a 600mm telescope lens with a Canon 7D attached will do go here: Flickr: roychurchill's Photostream
I have been looking at this guys pics for the past two or three years. He recently started using this set up and it is really amazing the shots he gets with MF and a telescope.
He mentioned the scope was about 400-500 dollars. I have thought many time about trying it. Not interested in an AF telescope for $7,000, but a small cheap set up like his would be allot of fun. I think.
12-10-2012, 05:50 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mojtala Quote
This alone means Pentax does not have any plan for FF! FF wishers, do not waste your time her.
This statement has nothing to do with whether Pentax is developing a FF or not.

12-10-2012, 06:20 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by steve1307 Quote
my 100WR doesn't have blue rings. unless it fell off
No ring at all, but a blue "theme"... lettering and such.

QuoteOriginally posted by steve1307 Quote
The red ring on the 560 is maybe so they can align the pricing with Canon red ring products.
That would be the worst reason ever to replace green with red...
12-10-2012, 07:34 AM   #96
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Take the Nikon 500mm f4.
Nikon says it has angle of view of 3 degrees in crop format DX and 5 degrees in in full frame FX:


Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4G ED VR II AF Lens (Black) 2172 B&H

Focal Length 500 mm

Aperture
Maximum: f/4
Minimum: f/22



Camera Mount Type
Nikon F



Format Compatibility

Nikon FX/35mm Film Angle of View 5

Nikon DX Picture Angle: 3

Minimum Focus Distance 13.12' (4.0 m)



QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
I don't think anyone understands this, even magazines.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
560mm is 560mm, whether shot on full frame, or on crop frame. However, the angle of view is cropped on crop frame, meaning that your field of view, if you mount this 560mm lens on a K5 would look similar to the field of view you would get if you mounted an 840mm lens on a Pentax Pz-1. Surely you understand this?
QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
I'm confused, how does this upcoming crop format 560mm Pentax lens become a 859mm lens on full frame ?
Crop format gives more reach, not less.

Wouldn't this be more like a 366mm f5.6 on full frame to equal 560mm f5.6 on 1.53x Pentax crop format ???

If this is really a "859mm full frame" lens then that alone should translate to a 1314mm 1.53x crop format sensor lens.
Simple math: 859mm x 1.53 = 1314mm.

Here's the official 560mm Pentax specs:



"The Pentax DA 560mm f/5.6 ED AW Lens is a super telephoto lens offering a 35mm-equivalent focal length of 859mm. This long reach lens has a maximum aperture of f/5.6 and features a 9 rounded diaphragm blade construction. The optical construction of the lens includes a high-grade multi-layer HD coating on lens elements for sharp, clear imagery with reduced flare and ghosting due to internal reflections. The optical design mimics that of a telescope, and also includes two extra-low dispersion (ED) lens elements to prevent chromatic aberration and maintain image clarity across the entire picture plane. A Super Protect (SP) coating is also applied for increased protection on the front element and for greater ease when cleaning.

A built-in DC driving motor promotes smooth auto focusing, which can also be deactivated using the Quick-Shift focus system to instantly switch between AF and MF modes. A built-in filter holder within the lens barrel permits the use of 40.5mm filters (a circular polarizer is included) for greater accessibility to a variety of filters. Additionally the white lens barrel helps to minimize heat haze within the barrel while a dust and weatherproof construction ensures proper functionality in poor shooting conditions.

Super telephoto-length lens provides a 35mm equivalent focal length of 859mm. Telescope-type optical construction integrates two extra-low dispersion elements to help reduce chromatic aberration. High-grade multi-layer HD coating and SP (Super Protect) coating ensure image fidelity, reduce lens flare, and provide additional protection to the lens elements. AF driving motor (DC motor) produces smooth autofocus operation. Dustproof and weather-resistant design utilizes 29 special seals for increased protection when working in the elements. Built-in 40.5mm drop-in filter holder facilitates easier switching between filters. Autofocus system is compatible with K10D and later Pentax K-mount bodies (manual focus is supported on all K-mount Pentax DSLRs). "


Focal Length

560 mm

Aperture

Maximum: f/5.6
Minimum: f/45



Camera Mount Type

Pentax K



Format Compatibility
Pentax Digital (APS-C)



Angle of View 2.9

Minimum Focus Distance 18.37' (5.60 m)


taken from B&H ad:

Pentax DA 560mm f/5.6 ED AW Lens 22180 B&H Photo Video

Last edited by Samsungian; 12-10-2012 at 07:41 AM.
12-10-2012, 08:46 AM   #97
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For convenience, I'll take other two examples: Nikkor 400mm and 600mm lenses:
Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 600mm f/4G ED VR AF Lens 2173 B&H Photo Video
Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 400mm f/2.8G ED VR AF Lens (Black) 2171 B&H
You can see how the 600mm on a FX format have the same angle of view (4 degrees) as the 400mm on the DX format. So it's the longer lens on FX "equals" (angle of view) the shorter on DX.
Similarly, the same angle of view as the 560mm on DX can be obtained by an 890mm lens on FX. Definitely not a 366mm.
12-10-2012, 09:22 AM   #98
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Pentax seems to say their upcoming 560mm has same angle of view on both aps-c & full frame.

Nikon states the angle of view changes on 500mm etc between DX and FX.

Thats the problem I still have.

How does the angle of view remain the same on Pentax aps-c and non existent full frame Pentax dslr when it changes for Nikon owners, according to Nikon ?

I do not understand Pentax 859mm focal length claim due to angle of view remaining constant between two sensor formats, 1.53x and non existent FF.






QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
For convenience, I'll take other two examples: Nikkor 400mm and 600mm lenses:
Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 600mm f/4G ED VR AF Lens 2173 B&H Photo Video
Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 400mm f/2.8G ED VR AF Lens (Black) 2171 B&H
You can see how the 600mm on a FX format have the same angle of view (4 degrees) as the 400mm on the DX format. So it's the longer lens on FX "equals" (angle of view) the shorter on DX.
Similarly, the same angle of view as the 560mm on DX can be obtained by an 890mm lens on FX. Definitely not a 366mm.


12-10-2012, 09:34 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Pentax seems to say their upcoming 560mm has same angle of view on both aps-c & full frame.

Nikon states the angle of view changes on 500mm etc between DX and FX.

Thats the problem I still have.

How does the angle of view remain the same on Pentax aps-c and non existent full frame Pentax dslr when it changes for Nikon owners, according to Nikon ?

I do not understand Pentax 859mm focal length claim due to angle of view remaining constant between two sensor formats, 1.53x and non existent FF.
That would be against the laws of physics.
QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Take the Nikon 500mm f4.
Nikon says it has angle of view of 3 degrees in crop format DX and 5 degrees in in full frame FX:


Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 500mm f/4G ED VR II AF Lens (Black) 2172 B&H

Focal Length 500 mm

Aperture
Maximum: f/4
Minimum: f/22



Camera Mount Type
Nikon F



Format Compatibility

Nikon FX/35mm Film Angle of View 5

Nikon DX Picture Angle: 3

Minimum Focus Distance 13.12' (4.0 m)
Which confirms what the were referring to in regards to your previous posts. A 500mm f4 lens is still a 500mm f4 lens whether it is on a D7000 or D800.
12-10-2012, 09:58 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Pentax seems to say their upcoming 560mm has same angle of view on both aps-c & full frame.

Nikon states the angle of view changes on 500mm etc between DX and FX.

Thats the problem I still have.

How does the angle of view remain the same on Pentax aps-c and non existent full frame Pentax dslr when it changes for Nikon owners, according to Nikon ?

I do not understand Pentax 859mm focal length claim due to angle of view remaining constant between two sensor formats, 1.53x and non existent FF.
I think I said that the angle of view is not the same, but the lens is the same. If you mount an FA 50 on a PZ-1 and then on a K5, it is the same lens. The thing is that the crop sensor sees only part of the image circle. The field of view is more narrow on crop frame (looking like a 75mm field of view on a full frame) than on the full frame, but the focal length remains the same. A 50mm lens mounted on any camera from a Q to a 645 camera is still a 50mm lens.
12-10-2012, 11:16 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
Pentax seems to say their upcoming 560mm has same angle of view on both aps-c & full frame.
Where do they say this? I only saw them claiming that it has a 2.9 degree angle of view, on a Pentax DSLR (i.e. APS-C, because so far that's the only kind of Pentax DSLRs); and that it's "equivalent to 859.0mm in 35mm format" (in terms of angle of view).

The angle of view cannot possibly remain the same when changing formats.
12-10-2012, 11:34 AM   #102
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If this Pentax 560mm is mounted on full frame its like a "859mm" lens then, per Pentax specs ???

"The Pentax DA 560mm f/5.6 ED AW Lens is a super telephoto lens offering a 35mm-equivalent focal length of 859mm."

I see 859mm divided by 1.53 crop format = 561.43.

Close enough to 560mm.






QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Where do they say this? I only saw them claiming that it has a 2.9 degree angle of view, on a Pentax DSLR (i.e. APS-C, because so far that's the only kind of Pentax DSLRs); and that it's "equivalent to 859.0mm in 35mm format" (in terms of angle of view).

The angle of view cannot possibly remain the same when changing formats.

Last edited by Samsungian; 12-10-2012 at 11:40 AM.
12-10-2012, 12:35 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
If this Pentax 560mm is mounted on full frame its like a "859mm" lens then, per Pentax specs ???

"The Pentax DA 560mm f/5.6 ED AW Lens is a super telephoto lens offering a 35mm-equivalent focal length of 859mm."

I see 859mm divided by 1.53 crop format = 561.43.

Close enough to 560mm.
No, the 560mm when used on an APS-C camera provides the same field of view as a 859mm on a FF cam.
12-10-2012, 12:43 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
If this Pentax 560mm is mounted on full frame its like a "859mm" lens then, per Pentax specs ???

"The Pentax DA 560mm f/5.6 ED AW Lens is a super telephoto lens offering a 35mm-equivalent focal length of 859mm."

I see 859mm divided by 1.53 crop format = 561.43.

Close enough to 560mm.
It's the opposite. Mounted on crop frame, a 560mm lens gives a view equivalent to an 859mm lens on full frame. If you mount it on a full frame camera (assuming its image circle would cover such a sensor), it would give a 560mm view.
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