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11-23-2014, 09:20 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
Well I proposed myself to make such images forPentax France - I'm using a FA*600f4 usually. Guess what ? They didn't answer me. The most fun : for the Pentax lens brochure, to illustrate this 560, they have but an image of an european bee catcher.
see http://s2.media.ricoh-imaging.fr/media/1d4e72b257e16baa270f111123baf28b/K_Mount_Lens.pdf
See p 24 image fram Thibaud Epeche
After a sort research, I discovered that this was shot with the DA*300. So even in their official brochure they are not capable of finding good images shot with this lens. Poor marketing...
That's poor marketing. It likely gives people the impression that Pentax/Ricoh themselves don't really take this lens seriously, or at least do not take selling this lens seriously. Still, the ones most convinced that the lens is not worth its current list price are not the target group of photographers for a high class super tele lens anyway. The ones that áre in the target group, but let the preconception that this lens cánnot be worth its list price keep them from buying it, are simply depriving themselves of thé high end digital designed and portable super tele lens for the Pentax system, that beats older lenses at resolution, contrast and clarity. I am glad myself that I decided to get it and use it myself to establish whether the lens is worth its money.
But that all the more makes me want to see Pentax succeed in the segment of birding and wildlife. They have got the benefit of Sony sensors over Canon, and the weight benefit over Nikon. And still the price benefit over both, even at the current price. If they can get tracking up to par, then there will really only be the autofocus speed that is trailing, accuracy is superb already. Not many would want to put a 2x tc on a 560mm lens, and the DA560 woeks absolutely great with the HD 1.4tc, also AF wise, so the F5.6 max. aperture is hardly a concern.
I feel the lens deserves better than sitting on the shelves unsold. So let's see whether the retail price really get's a cut.....

Chris

11-23-2014, 03:02 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by Thibaud Quote
Yup, that's me.
The 560 wasn't ready at the time they did the brochure.
Really ? The bee eater picture is a nice catch. I'm not convinced that, since then, they have put marketing effort on this lens. A friend wanted to go beyond her DA*300, last summer, finally we purchased a second FA*600f4 on this forum, in norway. It costed 5000 euros plus 500 euros maintenance afterwards.
I'm sure that with the new price she would have bought it instead.
Tells Laurence - I'm in touch with her on linkedIn - that I'll still be pleased if my images are used to promote Pentax for wildlife before I switch brand - she didn't answer me
My version of the bee eater

There are other nice wildlife images on my flickr account here
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jpgoube

Bonne soirée

@Chris, I would expect autofocus issues with the TC ? The f8 is supposed to be NOT compatible with the autofocus system.
11-23-2014, 03:17 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
(...)

@Chris, I would expect autofocus issues with the TC ? The f8 is supposed to be NOT compatible with the autofocus system.
According to RIcoh Imaging, HD Pentax-DA AF Rear Converter 1.4x AW is compatible with HD Pentax-DA 560mm f/5.6 ED AW with a caveat: "Could be out of focus with phase matching AF"
11-23-2014, 05:34 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
According to RIcoh Imaging, HD Pentax-DA AF Rear Converter 1.4x AW is compatible with HD Pentax-DA 560mm f/5.6 ED AW with a caveat: "Could be out of focus with phase matching AF"
What does that even mean? Could be?

11-23-2014, 06:31 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
What does that even mean? Could be?
I guess they are saying it depends on the camera it is mounted on?

The PDAF of some Pentaxes may not work as well as others when the minimum aperture is at or above f5.6. Same story with teleconverters.
11-23-2014, 07:15 PM   #141
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Anyone doubting what the DA 560 can do in good hands, should check out https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/279834-field-test-hd-da-560mm-f5-6-ed-if-aw-pentax-lens.html .
11-24-2014, 05:21 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
According to RIcoh Imaging, HD Pentax-DA AF Rear Converter 1.4x AW is compatible with HD Pentax-DA 560mm f/5.6 ED AW with a caveat: "Could be out of focus with phase matching AF"
Phase matching AF is autofocus when using the viewfinder, as opposed to contrast detection AF which is the mode used in live view.
It is possible that the autofocus is not precise enough when TC attached to the 560, because the combo is at f8 wide open, it is not enough for Pentax - only recent high end Nikon cameras like the D4S and D810 are capable of precise AF at F8, and this is a recent improvement. And you need very precise AF with such a long focal, as depth of field is ridiculous - a couple of cms at 10 m. And of course, if AF is not precise, the sharpness is gone.
It is a pity that they disn't made this lens slightly faster - F4.5 like the sigma, or even F5 - in order to be compatible with the future RC. But it is true hat Under hoya, the RC was put out of the roadmap.
11-24-2014, 05:35 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
Phase matching AF is autofocus when using the viewfinder, as opposed to contrast detection AF which is the mode used in live view.
It is possible that the autofocus is not precise enough when TC attached to the 560, because the combo is at f8 wide open, it is not enough for Pentax - only recent high end Nikon cameras like the D4S and D810 are capable of precise AF at F8, and this is a recent improvement. And you need very precise AF with such a long focal, as depth of field is ridiculous - a couple of cms at 10 m. And of course, if AF is not precise, the sharpness is gone.
It is a pity that they disn't made this lens slightly faster - F4.5 like the sigma, or even F5 - in order to be compatible with the future RC. But it is true hat Under hoya, the RC was put out of the roadmap.
I have not been out in the field enough with the DA560 + 1.4TC combo to make any claims on AF. IQ is very good and in good light AF seems ok. But for one, the Sigma 500/4.5 was very unreliable with both the sigma 1.4tc and the Pentax 1.4tc, so F4.5 did not help there. Secondly, the AF module in the K3 already focusses down to low light levels, so the maximum aperture of F5.6 may not be the culprit here. I would be conservative in making statements on this combo, as 784mm is very hard to handle to begin with.
I will see how the AF works in the field.

Chris

11-24-2014, 09:32 AM   #144
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I'll add that until recently (I think it changed now) there was no Canon (but maybe very high end ones) which would AF past f/5.6
It just was disabled by Canon. Dimmer than 5.6 ? You'll do it yourself, the cam wouldn't even try.
11-24-2014, 10:24 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Secondly, the AF module in the K3 already focusses down to low light levels, so the maximum aperture of F5.6 may not be the culprit here.
I believe the statement Ricoh made was very generic. And not camera specific, just that it MAY not work. So without testing on specific camera bodies it is hard to say. it is quite possible that it will work fine on the k-3 but not on a k-5 or k-7. Looking forward to hear back on results from real world tests.
11-24-2014, 10:53 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
I have not been out in the field enough with the DA560 + 1.4TC combo to make any claims on AF. IQ is very good and in good light AF seems ok. But for one, the Sigma 500/4.5 was very unreliable with both the sigma 1.4tc and the Pentax 1.4tc, so F4.5 did not help there. Secondly, the AF module in the K3 already focusses down to low light levels, so the maximum aperture of F5.6 may not be the culprit here. I would be conservative in making statements on this combo, as 784mm is very hard to handle to begin with.
I will see how the AF works in the field.

Chris
I don't think it is a question of ambiant light level. My understanding is that phase detection AF works like the split prism on the focusing screen like the KatEye. When lens is not fast enough, it is impossible to use it, cause one of the prism is always dark. The limit seems to be f5.6 too.
11-24-2014, 11:01 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Great work there........


He is just afraid of bears....I would do that with DA*55mm
11-24-2014, 11:34 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
I don't think it is a question of ambiant light level. My understanding is that phase detection AF works like the split prism on the focusing screen like the KatEye. When lens is not fast enough, it is impossible to use it, cause one of the prism is always dark. The limit seems to be f5.6 too.
Thanks, perhaps time to get a bit deeper into the technology behind phase detect AF, I tend to go by practical experience.
But does that leave room for the fact, that in good light the DA560 + 1.4tc combo focusses just fine?

Chris
11-24-2014, 11:37 AM   #149
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I can't tell. I made a try with a FA*400 f5.6 + Pentax TC, the focus doesn't lock that good. And anyway, the IQ is just terrible with this lens - it is just fine with the FA*600f4 tough, and the AF is fast and reliable. But is is an F4 lens.
11-24-2014, 11:39 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
I can't tell. I made a try with a FA*400 f5.6 + Pentax TC, the focus doesn't lock that good. And anyway, the IQ is just terrible with this lens - it is just fine with the FA*600f4 tough, and the AF is fast and reliable. But is is an F4 lens.
Another point of matter is: does the f8 aperture also influence single point AF negatively, I can imagine multi point AF failing at this aperture, but also single (centre) point AF?

Chris
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