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09-12-2012, 12:14 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I'd never be so silly as to pay interest on a non-essential (and also heavily depreciating item) such as a camera.
You're obviously not an artist. I can't imagine a camera not being essential to my life, even if only as a resource gathering tool for my paintings. Being a musician and a visual artist I can say without doubt that Art is not just something I do (on weekends) but is the way I interact with the culture and world around me in every moment.

09-12-2012, 04:23 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
Almost all AF systems are optimized for the incoming light cone of a f/5.6 lens. The light cone of an f/2.8 lens has an wider angle and thus may not be AFed correctly. This problem increases at lower light levels, when the faster lens is more needed... It makes a lot of sense to optimize the AF system for faster lenses in my opinion, as this is the right way to make the best out of the more expensive faster lenses. Good move by Pentax, I think.

Ben
Yes, thank you. I also came across this https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/198640-k-5ii-autofocus-sensors...on-wanted.html, which provides a more detailed discussion.
09-12-2012, 06:12 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Then you would do well to desist on arguing about cost, whether you can afford to or not, about a consumer item that you don't need.

The term 'few' is clearly relative. It is not silly to use the term in reference to photographic gear, as $400 is not a large amount in the prosumer/professional photographic world (though it is considerable for a consumer item).

If you want to call me ignorant based on my use of the word 'affordability', good for you. It still means you're balking at the thought of spending the amount of money on something you want - that just portrays a low value for money position, which I disagree with in terms of the K-5 II.

Now back onto the discussion.
I never brought up my personal affordability of these cameras into the discussion.. you did. So why do you tell me not to bring up affordability??

400 dollars is relative... true. 400 dollars is four tenths of one percent (0.4%) of a new Lamborghini. 400 dollars is one third (~33%) of the cost of the K-5ii body or three fifths (~60%) of the cost of a K-30 body. As you can see, that is relatively a lot of money when it comes to these bodies and not the 'few dollars' as you suggested.

Of course I'm weighing cost per features. Who wouldn't? And not just in cameras but in general. Do you see something you like (camera.. pair of shoes.. yacht.. etc) and instantly buy it or do you weigh price versus features to find what you consider is the best one of the ones that meet your needs? Surely you don't see a product and buy without looking at the price.. You are probably more fiscally responsible than that. Unless, of course, you are growing money trees in the backyard.

Oh, and for the record, I did not call you ignorant on using the term 'affordability' (a term to which you keep coming back?). I called you ignorant of knowing me and my financial situation. Quite frankly, you don't know me yet you are judging my reasoning (your claim of my lack of ability to afford). It would be easier and more friendly to either not bring up a person's financial condition or to at least to ask than to assume (incorrectly).

I've come to the conclusion (due to seeing this occur many times) that this seems to be common practice on web forums -- someone weighs the price of an item in their thoughts, another attacks them (and thus their point of view) through the means of claiming they are financially 'broke.' This is ignorant (lacking knowledge) of the facts of that person and could be considered an attack on them.

I hope, we can all agree, that such behavior is not nice and should be avoided in the future here at Pentax Forums; I'd rather be friends than considered your forum enemy.
09-12-2012, 06:18 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
You're obviously not an artist. I can't imagine a camera not being essential to my life, even if only as a resource gathering tool for my paintings. Being a musician and a visual artist I can say without doubt that Art is not just something I do (on weekends) but is the way I interact with the culture and world around me in every moment.

I see everyone as an artist.

One doesn't require a top-shelf camera (for instance) to make/capture photographic art; The tools don't make the artist.

09-12-2012, 02:19 PM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I see everyone as an artist.

One doesn't require a top-shelf camera (for instance) to make/capture photographic art; The tools don't make the artist.
I was talking about attitude more than money. To classify a cameras as a 'non-essential' makes that person a non-artist AFAIK.
09-12-2012, 02:47 PM   #186
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Far more than new camera solution what i'd love to see from Pentax is Weather sealed DA limiteds and replacing SDM motors with something new and improved or at least making it much more reliable. I love shooting landscape on those rough days when the sun breaks through now and again from dark watery clouds as the light is somewhat magic on those days. Clearly there is no Pentax wide angle solution to match the K5 for the occasion. The widest option is obviously the 16-50 and i'm not willing to spend that amount of money on a lens know to have major SDM issues and poor sample variation. On those days when i'm out at the moment i'm having to fire my camera and DA 15 into the bag when the rain kicks off and sometimes i'm missing out on some potentially good shots. Weather sealed camera and lens set up is definitely a big deal here in Ireland and i'm half way there with the K5. A weather sealed DA 15 Limited or DA 12-24 to go with it would be the mutts nutts!
09-12-2012, 02:54 PM   #187
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There is a DA 12-28 and a DA* 16-85 on the roadmap for 2013. I'm pretty sure they will be weather sealed. The focal lenghts are approximate...
09-12-2012, 04:08 PM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
There is a DA 12-28 and a DA* 16-85 on the roadmap for 2013. I'm pretty sure they will be weather sealed. The focal lenghts are approximate...
Then i'm a happy camper. Cheers!

09-12-2012, 04:11 PM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by captainbert Quote
Then i'm a happy camper. Cheers!
There's a lot of disagreement as to the actual range of those lenses.
09-12-2012, 04:29 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I was talking about attitude more than money. To classify a cameras as a 'non-essential' makes that person a non-artist AFAIK.
Are you sure you don't mean more than you are saying? Because what you just said is if one does not possess a camera, they are not an artist. Surely you do not truly mean and thus believe this as they are MANY more mediums to art than photography.

If you are claiming *I* am not an (photography based) artist, since I feel so loosely about the camera being non-essential, then perhaps you should reconsider your viewpoint on what makes an artist an artist.

I say that because you might be too wrapped around the tools and technology used in crafting the art than the art itself. As a personal example, I am no more and no less an artist as a result of my K-x than you are with your D800E. Failure to see this is a failure to understand what is art.

The more advanced, high quality, or otherwise 'superior' the camera, the easier it will be to obtain that artist's original vision and that is all it does for them to advance them as an artist; The camera type is largely non-essential to the photographer/artist to be considered an artist.

Otherwise, if the camera type matters, the camera is largely the artist and the person operating the camera is simply the person operating the camera.
09-12-2012, 05:06 PM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
There is a DA 12-28 and a DA* 16-85 on the roadmap for 2013. I'm pretty sure they will be weather sealed. The focal lenghts are approximate...
If the quote on the front page is correct (Ricoh to have Pentax employees execute the remaining stuff on the Hoya roadmap), then it seems those lenses are more than 50% sure to come out next year... or later. :P

So when will Ricoh's "plans" move in? 2015? That's a long wait.... digital 135 format may be commonplace by that time.
09-12-2012, 05:14 PM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Are you sure you don't mean more than you are saying? Because what you just said is if one does not possess a camera, they are not an artist. Surely you do not truly mean and thus believe this as they are MANY more mediums to art than photography.

If you are claiming *I* am not an (photography based) artist, since I feel so loosely about the camera being non-essential, then perhaps you should reconsider your viewpoint on what makes an artist an artist.

I say that because you might be too wrapped around the tools and technology used in crafting the art than the art itself. As a personal example, I am no more and no less an artist as a result of my K-x than you are with your D800E. Failure to see this is a failure to understand what is art.

The more advanced, high quality, or otherwise 'superior' the camera, the easier it will be to obtain that artist's original vision and that is all it does for them to advance them as an artist; The camera type is largely non-essential to the photographer/artist to be considered an artist.

Otherwise, if the camera type matters, the camera is largely the artist and the person operating the camera is simply the person operating the camera.
My comment was a gross generalization and I apologize if it offended you.

A few points:
1. I did NOT mean to suggest that if one does not own a camera that one cannot be an artist.
2. I did NOT mean to suggest that one could not be an artist per se if one was not into photography.
3. I did NOT mean to suggest that anyone with the attitude expressed in the original comment was not a capable person or someone who could not make interesting and meaningful photographs.

I did mean to suggest that anyone who could regard a camera as a non-essential was not a serious photographic artist. The admission that the camera was non-essential was the 'key' here.

I was out of line in that I assumed it was the aspiration of everyone here to be an serious photographic artist. My mistake.

I did not make any remarks regarding differing formats so I don't know where you got that D800 v K-x idea from. My comment was about attitude, not technology.

My experience as an artist:
1. I have a Degree in Fine Art,
2. I have exhibited my paintings in National Galleries and commercial galleries in Australia,
3. I have been an Artist in Residence on several occasions
4. I have taught in art in a tertiary institution.
5. Early in my career I received a few government grants for exhibitions and installations.
09-12-2012, 05:33 PM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote

So when will Ricoh's "plans" move in? 2015? That's a long wait.... digital 135 format may be commonplace by that time.
Not as long as they cost $2800 (or $2000+)
09-12-2012, 06:10 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
My comment was a gross generalization and I apologize if it offended you.

A few points:
1. I did NOT mean to suggest that if one does not own a camera that one cannot be an artist.
2. I did NOT mean to suggest that one could not be an artist per se if one was not into photography.
3. I did NOT mean to suggest that anyone with the attitude expressed in the original comment was not a capable person or someone who could not make interesting and meaningful photographs.

I did mean to suggest that anyone who could regard a camera as a non-essential was not a serious photographic artist. The admission that the camera was non-essential was the 'key' here.

I was out of line in that I assumed it was the aspiration of everyone here to be an serious photographic artist. My mistake.

I did not make any remarks regarding differing formats so I don't know where you got that D800 v K-x idea from. My comment was about attitude, not technology.

My experience as an artist:
1. I have a Degree in Fine Art,
2. I have exhibited my paintings in National Galleries and commercial galleries in Australia,
3. I have been an Artist in Residence on several occasions
4. I have taught in art in a tertiary institution.
5. Early in my career I received a few government grants for exhibitions and installations.

You are certainly accomplished in your field and *handshakes*

But, yes this goes back to people judging people based on their own personal views than the judged person's own view. I suspect we all have done it at some point in time.. I know I have, which is why I so easily spot it. This very thing is the reason for many conflicts between people I think.. not only here but generally speaking. We have to get beyond ourselves to see the other person... as humans that can be difficult.

For the record, I have no desire to be artistically known, to have my work understood, or even largely appreciated. I create art and create it simply because I can. It is an outlet.
09-12-2012, 06:25 PM   #195
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Does anyone have an idea of what Ricoh has planned for their own line of cameras at PK? Will they have their own booth or will they be lumped in with Pentax?
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