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09-28-2012, 02:28 AM   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Sigh. They were talking about a dedicated mirrorless mount, not about a "full frame" - it's in the interview ogl posted.

Photokina 2012 -
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/200179-one-more-interv...n-english.html
Please, don't sound so certain in your assertions unless you can precisely remember such things. Thank you.
QuoteQuote:
If we launch mirrorless camera with a larger sensor, it means a new mount, and it's difficult to create one. If we launch a product with a larger sensor, we'd have to change the direction from the K mount to a different one. For example, Panasonic and Olympus moved to Micro Four Thirds.
That's the one, thanks!

But read more carefully though. He says "mirrorless with a larger sensor". They already have a mirrorless with an APSC sensor. (K-01) So what's larger then APSC? Hmmm... Or do you think they were talking about APSH?

If they didn't have to change the mount for the K-01, and the SR would work on FF with the K-mount, then they wouldn't have to change the mount for an FF mirrorless or FF DSLR either.

But, I still hope I'm wrong. So, by all means, prove me wrong.

09-28-2012, 02:33 AM   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
A Pentax FF, with SR and K-mount is not possible. K-mount is a FF yes, but only for film. When the media is going to be bouncing around like with SR, then the K-mount suddenly becomes to small. So, Pentax FF + SR means a new mount.
Hmm, I think the mount can stay. The Sony A99 also has IBIS, right? If they could do it, then Pentax can too, but most probably not with the K-7/K-5 body.


unless they make some groundbreaking size reduction of the SR plate...
09-28-2012, 02:46 AM   #348
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Hmm, I think the mount can stay. The Sony A99 also has IBIS, right? If they could do it, then Pentax can too, but most probably not with the K-7/K-5 body.


unless they make some groundbreaking size reduction of the SR plate...
With its 46.1mm diameter the Sony mount is larger then K-mount. Moreover, it's still not large enough to match the Pentax SR. The IBIS of Sony saves less stops then the Pentax SR. So that future FF mount with SR of Pentax should be even larger that the E-mount already is.
09-28-2012, 03:00 AM   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
That's the one, thanks!

But read more carefully though. He says "mirrorless with a larger sensor". They already have a mirrorless with an APSC sensor. (K-01) So what's larger then APSC? Hmmm... Or do you think they were talking about APSH?

If they didn't have to change the mount for the K-01, and the SR would work on FF with the K-mount, then they wouldn't have to change the mount for an FF mirrorless or FF DSLR either.

But, I still hope I'm wrong. So, by all means, prove me wrong.
Don't try to read too much from those few words, you will draw the wrong conclusions. The context was that of a dedicated mirrorless, and "larger sensor" means a sensor bigger than their other dedicated mirrorless mount, the Q. K-01 was their solution for not introducing a dedicated APS-C mirrorless mount.
They weren't talking about a larger than APS-C sensor, at that point.

If you want to be proven wrong, call Mr. Shigeru Wakashiro and ask him what he meant

09-28-2012, 03:18 AM   #350
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Hmm, I think the mount can stay. The Sony A99 also has IBIS, right? If they could do it, then Pentax can too, but most probably not with the K-7/K-5 body.


unless they make some groundbreaking size reduction of the SR plate...
Ah, thanks for the idea... Good thing Camera-Size comparisons are all to scale (duh, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the site)

Here's an image of the K-5IIs with the A99 sensor cropped and placed center to the mount.

Useful for those having a hard time visualising differences/clearances etc...

Although of course it might not be entirely accurate since perspective can throw things off... but close enough
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09-28-2012, 08:55 AM   #351
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vylen Quote
Ah, thanks for the idea... Good thing Camera-Size comparisons are all to scale (duh, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of the site)

Here's an image of the K-5IIs with the A99 sensor cropped and placed center to the mount.

Useful for those having a hard time visualising differences/clearances etc...

Although of course it might not be entirely accurate since perspective can throw things off... but close enough
See, it just fits... only just. Now, imagine the SR making that big sensor float around...
09-28-2012, 09:40 AM   #352
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This would be a big question for Pentaxians. Let's assume for the sake of discussion that the K-mount does NOT have enough clearance for a FF sensor + in-body SR.

1) Would folks here accept a Pentax FF offering without in-body SR? Would you spend $2,600 on one with not a single available Pentax-manufactured optically stabilized K-mount lens?
2) Would it be heretical for Pentax to abandon in-body SR (ignoring the 645D)? Has SR become synonymous with Pentax like weather-sealing and K-mount compatibility? Can SR be untangled?


QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
See, it just fits... only just. Now, imagine the SR making that big sensor float around...
09-28-2012, 10:00 AM   #353
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let's assume they can pull off the sr mechanism... and they also are willing to give up a row or two of pixels off the sensor and lose some image resolution off the 24 mp sensor... and market it as a 22 mp camera... and they devise a hybrid mechanical/software driven sr system in order to go FF .....
certainly possible, most likely noisy sr mechanism, and definitely less capable than the sr in the apsc format....

to get any decent shooting speed you'd need serious processing power... say a duo core version of the latest prime engine... (also a way to beef up the 645-d BTW so is plausible)
you'd need new battery system to power that.... so heat becomes an issue...

this and having to deal with sony explains the delays... we may see it in early 2013.
which brings me to my point...
wait until 2013 for the FF camera and be an early adopter (read beta tester) for a new from the ground up camera or jump now on the k5 mk II and get the evolutionary advancements off a proven platform?
no brainer for me... FF can wait. Even if the y offered it today, I won't jump until the reports are in and some time has passed.... So why people threaten to jump brands every week baffles me.


Last edited by D0n; 09-28-2012 at 10:05 AM.
09-28-2012, 10:01 AM   #354
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Pentax will never build a FF camera!!!!! so those who are waiting might as well move to another system. The FF system will not be built by Pentax because of the money, they could never compete with the company's that have built one.
They will build another camera simular the K-3 specks next year but it will not be FF.
The only other system will be the 645D and you know this is true because of the new lenses they have built for it, They have not come out with a lens that will work on FF since they took over . That should be telling you something...

So lets quit kicking a dead horse in the a$$ and stop all these FF posts.
09-28-2012, 12:12 PM   #355
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FF would of course fit as the Kmount worked for 35mm which is the same size. Now could they fir shake reduction in the body. No I don't think so, and that is why we don't see a full frame system any time soon.
09-28-2012, 12:34 PM   #356
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I gotta stop reading these threads. But I just can't help myself.
09-28-2012, 12:42 PM   #357
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fl_Gulfer Quote
Pentax will never build a FF camera!!!!! so those who are waiting might as well move to another system. The FF system will not be built by Pentax because of the money, they could never compete with the company's that have built one.
They will build another camera simular the K-3 specks next year but it will not be FF.
The only other system will be the 645D and you know this is true because of the new lenses they have built for it, They have not come out with a lens that will work on FF since they took over . That should be telling you something...

So lets quit kicking a dead horse in the a$$ and stop all these FF posts.
Do you really believe that or are you just trolling?

Have you checked out the 50mm f/1.8 on full frame lately?
09-28-2012, 01:10 PM   #358
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Saying Pentax won't build an FF camera 'because of the money' contradicts the value of the 645D to Pentax. A FF will no doubt comprise a greater market share than the 645D, perhaps even more than proportionally so according to cost/unit sales.
09-28-2012, 08:51 PM   #359
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well here is a simple solution for the FF/SR dilemma: why not just implement an auto-crop? So when you use SR, the camera detects the movement of the sensor, and if it would cause vignetting just auto crops the image to let's say 1,1x or 1,2x.
I mean let's face it:
1. nobody needs SR for every picture one takes. So if you need it, you life with a slightly cropped image and if you don't need it, you get the full frame.
2. we already expect a crop mode to use our DA lenses on a possible FF, so why not implement another one for SR use?
Of course, these auto crop modes should be disengageable.
09-28-2012, 10:10 PM - 1 Like   #360
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The diameter of the lens mount has little to do with the SR mechanism. The light exiting the back of the lens comes out as more of a cone shape than a cylinder and the exact size of the image circle at the focal plane is dependent on the lens design. I did a quick test with an F50/1.4, M100/2.8 and M200/4 and the image circles for all of these lenses were in the region of 55 - 60mm. Add in a couple of mm in each direction to the FF image circle of 43mm and you are at 47mm which is still comfortably within the actual image circle of the lenses. Of course a lot of lenses are noticeably softer at the corners and edges so practice may trump theory, but they could always redesign the lenses to take account of the extra amount of sharpness required at the edges or we could learn to live with slightly softer edges.

Side note: the tests were done on a view camera, measuring on the ground glass. The lenses were left wide open and focussed at infinity which is usually the worst case scenario for image circle.
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